Can a Barbarian/Bard inspire courage while raging?

[The Souljourner]

It does not take concentration, you are absolutely wrong. It requires that you sing, no where in the ability does it say anything about concentration. You cannot stop the bard from singing by hitting him, you cannot stop him from singing by grappling him, he just sings. Yes, you must consciously continue or stop, but that's true of walking, standing up, keeping your eyes open, etc etc etc. That doesn't mean you can't do them when you rage. Anything you can do while doing backflips without penalty I'd say probably doesn't count as requiring concentration.

Rage says you cannot use skills that require patience or concentration. I've already made my point about concentration. As for patience, they specifically mention things like moving silently or hiding in shadows. You're singing while you're chopping at your opponent's head. I don't think that counts as requiring patience.

-The Souljourner

 

[tarchon]

i disbelieve that this is the case. Look your in a frenzy your yelling screaming killing everything in sight, you think your going to be of any mindset to sing a song or shout a chant? I doubt it.

Ah, well, you fail your Will save, so you believe it anyway.
I play a barbarian/bard and I have, when RPing the IC, used things like doggerel taunts while doing the rage. You aren't necessarily singing an aria to orchestral accompaniment. If anything, the rage helps the effect. You're inspiring your comrades to fearless bloodlust; that only benefits if you're wrestling a demon or charging into the fray while you do it. Beat an orc to death with a lute - people will be impressed.
You could also use Tumble to do lots of showy fighting, vaulting around with a polearm, twirling your flail, something in the manner of Jackie Chan. I know I would be inspired if I was fighting with Jackie Chan.
Strictly from a rules perspective, I also agree that there's no suggestion in the rules that Inspire Courage requires anything like concentration.

 

[niteshade6]

The problem is that there are no official rules on this. We know you can't do anything that requires patience or concentration. But we don't know what kinds of skills or abilities require patience or concentration.

Personaly I would certainly say singing a song requires a certain degree of concentration and patience, and I would not allow it while raging. This is merely my opinion though. There is no right answer. and there is nothing in the rules to indicate that you can or can't use the ability while raging.

 

[tarchon]

The problem is that there are no official rules on this. We know you can't do anything that requires patience or concentration. But we don't know what kinds of skills or abilities require patience or concentration.

Personaly I would certainly say singing a song requires a certain degree of concentration and patience, and I would not allow it while raging. This is merely my opinion though. There is no right answer. and there is nothing in the rules to indicate that you can or can't use the ability while raging.

For you or me, perhaps, but a bard is a heroic performer, an Arion, an Orpheus, an Egil Skallagrimson.

He can bust a rhyme on yo

while he cappin it.

 

[Darklone]

I play a bard/barbarian too and we always ruled that he cannot keep up his singing while raging.... but it never proved to be much of a problem.

Round 1: Starting singing. You can't do anything else anyhow.

Round 2: Stop singing, the inspire courage takes effects for 5 rounds and you start raging while cleaving through the enemies.

Honestly, I scarcely needed all 5 rounds. Either my bard was finishing his rage and started to sing again (not too many rounds lost due to bad CON) or he was nearly knocked out due to not enough hitpoints for rage and cleave parties against opponents who hit.

Just don't forget to finish your last round of rage with a charge attack and critical against the opponent next to your cleric...
My char became famous for fainting after beheading someone.

 

[daTim]

An interesting interpertation of concentration, can bardic singing be interupted by any sort of damage? If not than clearly it is not as difficult as actually casting a spell, or activiating a magic item, or other actions that require concentration checks to continue doing the action. A bard can keep singing and inspiring people despite damage taken, so it must not require too much concentration...

 

[The Souljourner]

Like I said earlier, any action you can perform while doing backflips in combat can't require much concentration. Check this out - A bard is inspiring courage in his allies. During his turn he decides to use tumble to move *through* two of his enemies. He runs for 20 feet, then does a backflip over one (successfully making the tumble check), but then doesn't quite make it out of the reach of the second and gets hit (fails the tumble check, takes an attack of opportunity) for a mighty 15 damage. After landing on his feet behind the second enemy, he proceeds to stab the guy in the neck for 10 damage.

All this is perfectly legal, and is done while inspiring courage. So how does this require concentration again?

-The Souljourner

 

[guido1999]

Well, the bardic music produces magical effects and is a supernatural ability. It's fair to say that since you can cast spells when raging, you also cannot use supernatural abilities abilities.

 

[ForceUser]

Ahem. Supernatural abilities do NOT require concentration. Dragons don't have to make a concentration check if hit while breathing fire, nor do hags have to cast defensively when using their Horrific Appearance.

SPELL-LIKE abilities require concentration. SUPERNATURAL abilities do not. I think guido is confusing the two. When you look under bardic music you find that inspire courage and inspire greatness don't require concentration (being supernatural), while fascinate and suggestion do (being spell-like).

Those of you who are explaining why you think bards can't do it are actually reinforcing the fact that they can (in my mind) with poor arguments and/or lack of understanding of game mechanics. No offense meant, honestly But I'm convinced I have the right of it now - it can be done by the letter of the rules. Thank you all for your responses

 

[Sejs]

Races of Faerun.

Orc Warlord PrC gets Inspire Courage identical to the bard ability and makes specific refrence to the fact that it can be done while raging.

Don't have the book with me or I'd give ya a quote.