Can a Barbarian/Bard inspire courage while raging?

[niteshade6]

Well clearly doing a bard song doesn't require the concentration skill, but that doesn't mean it doesn't require any concentration at all. Doing complex algebra problems doesn't require the concentration skill either, but clearly requires quite a bit of concentration. Similarly the requirement of patience fits in with alot of things too.

The arguments for why it should be allowed are quite reasonable, and so are the ones for why it shouldn't be. There are no rules for it, so it kind of comes down to gut instinct and DM opinion. Matters such as that are generaly pointless to argue too much here since everyone has their own opinion and there is no right or wrong answer. In fact the only wrong answer is saying that your answer is the correct one and people who disagree are wrong.

 

[Artoomis]

I believe he can.

Under Barbarian Rage in the PHB, the text states:

"While raging, a barbarian cannot use skills or abilities that require patience and concentration, such as moving silently or casting spells."

Under Bardic Music, the text states:

"Once per day per level, a bard can use his song or poetics to produce magical effects on those around him...while these abilities fall under the category of bardic music, they can include reciting poetry, chanting, singing lyrical songs, singing melodies, whistling, playing an instrument, etc..."

Under the Inspire Courage section of Bardic Music, the text goes on to say:

"While singing, the bard can fight but cannot cast spells, activate magic items by spell completion (such as scrolls), or activate magic items by magic word (such as wands)."

Since there is nothing explict in the text that states that inspire courage requires concentration, it is my belief that a multiclass barbarian/bard could rage, fight, and sing a glorious song of battle all at the same time. Does anyone disagree? If so, please explain your rationale.

Hmmm.

What does "...patience and concentration..." mean? More than just that the concentration check is required, certainly, else the word "patience" would be entirely superfluous

What does it mean that a Bard cannot cast spells when singing - not even somatic only spells, even though he can fight?. What other actions can he not do while singing? Good question.

Hmmm....


Taken together it does sort of imply you cannot sing while raging, but it's only an implication, not a clear rule.

You could rule either way on this one and be within the rules.

 

[Chacal]

I know you're asking for rules, but I'll let flavor guide me in this case : I'd allow it.

Chacal

 

[MerakSpielman]

Inspire courage doesn't need to be singing.

You know how many ways a bard can perform? One for each rank in the Perform skill. The methods of artistic performance are limited only by player creativity. Any can work to inspire courage.

Perform: Axe Twirling
Perform: Battle Cry
Perform: Foaming Mouth
Etc...


Our halfling bard does Stand Up Comedy during combat to inspire us. The player tells a real joke each round, too.

 

[Magic Rub]

I would allow it for 2 reasons. (which I will explain after this blurb from the rules)

Under Bardic Music, the text states:

"Once per day per level, a bard can use his song or poetics to produce magical effects on those around him...while these abilities fall under the category of bardic music, they can include reciting poetry, chanting, singing lyrical songs, singing melodies, whistling, playing an instrument, etc..."

Please note that the ( chanting ) emphasis is mine.
____________________________________________
The Battle rager prestige class from Races of Faerun - states that they wade through battle singing & rageing all the way. (or something to that effect I don't have my book here so I cannot directly quote it.)
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Now here's why IMO bardic "music" can be used while in a rage:
You do not need to sing or recite poetry to use bardic music. Chanting is as easy to do as speaking, which as far as I am aware is still allowed while raging. Infact Chanting is far simpler to do then free form speech (you don't need to put as much thought into it). A chant can be as little as one word repeated again & again. example...
"Kill! Kill! Kill! Kill! Kill! Kill! Kill! Kill! Kill!"
Secondly the "Battle Rager" class I mentioned above has the singing aspect noted as flavour text, not as a special ability (I'm only 99% positive about this, again I don't have my book with me so I can't check right now). Which would lead me to believe that full out singing is not a difficult thing to do while in a rage. Battle Ragers (for those who don't know) are essentially just (Dwarf only) Barbarians, with a few bells & whistles ie; improved poison saves.

So to make a long rant short...

Yes You can use the Bardic music ability while in a rage IMO.

 

[LokiDR]

Against: The sage ruled you can not activate command word items while raging. The concept was that you should not be able to use magic in any form while raging. I think the sage would rule no singing while raging. Also, both rage and bardic perform prevent a large number of actions each. Just because they do not explicitly exclude each other, they both seem to be written to be exclusitory.

Supporting: Supernatural abilities don't require concentration checks, and singing is a free action (while you fight). There is a feat to inspire others to rage while you rage, so it seems to make sense to allow inspire while you rage. Nothing in the rules explictly states you can not do it, so you can. Have a frenzied maniac on your side could be a big boost to your confidence.

Pick your arguement. Each DM should decide based on they kind of game they want. The more munchkin your game, the more reasonable you will allow it. It isn't game breaking by itself, as noted by the example of starting singing before raging.

 

[guido1999]

I would say that you can rage and use any bardic music ability that was supernatural in nature, but not any bardic music ability that was spell-like in nature. The PHB does make it clear which bardic music abilities are supernatural and spell-like.

 

[Sejs]

There we go, got RoF back now - argument for allowing Bard/Barbarian to inspire courage while raging:

Races of Faerun, p185. Orc Warlord PrC. Left collum, bottom of the page.

Inspire Courage(Su): At 2nd level, the orc warlord gains the ability to inspire courage, which has the same effect as the bardic ability of the same name. The warlord makes an inspirational speech, bolstering his allies against fear and improving their combat abilities... *snip mechanics reprint*
..A warlord in the midst of a rage can use this ability, but in those cases the warlord's speech is more of a rant of howls and curses than a true speech.

 

[melkoriii]

Inspire Courage(Su): At 2nd level, the orc warlord gains the ability to inspire courage, which has the same effect as the bardic ability of the same name. The warlord makes an inspirational speech, bolstering his allies against fear and improving their combat abilities... *snip mechanics reprint*
..A warlord in the midst of a rage can use this ability, but in those cases the warlord's speech is more of a rant of howls and curses than a true speech.

This leads me to believe that a Bard can not use this while raging.

As it says "A warlord in the midst of a rage can use this ability"

Spasificly stating "A warlord" Not a Bard, Not just that it can be used while raging or that like other Bardic music can be used while raging.

Thanks.

Now Im sure you cant.

 

[Magic Rub]

I've got that battle rager quote now...

From RoF
"While enraged, a battle ragers face becomes distorted & twisted. his teeth grind together as spittle flies from his mouth & dribbles down his beard. His eyes enlarge, bulge & become blood shot. charging into battle, he bellows forth his clan or holy warsong..."

This is simply flavour text not an abillity. It however proves (again) that you can sing while enraged.

If you can sing during a rage then you can use the supernatural ability Inspire Courage.

__________

If you do not agree with that then...
__________

Question: Can you speak while in a rage?

If you can then you can chant. If you can chant then you can use Inspire Courage. Remember there is NO check for this abillity you need only to have 3 or more ranks in Preform.


melkoriii
IMO, The warlord PrC gives this ability for those who do not want to multiclass as a bard. But again it proves that it can be done, that the rage doesn't hinder the ability.