D&D 5E Can Objects Be Hidden?

[mrpopstar]

I can easily see a situation where someone hid an item in a potted plant, and then moved other plants in front of that one to create a disadvantage for future searchers.

This would not influence the ability check relevant to the task, it would increase the difficulty of the task.

In other words, you would not modify the seeker's ability check with disadvantage, you would raise the Difficulty Class of finding the hidden item.

 

[Gradine]

The rules are clear as to when and where advantage or disadvantage apply, as well as how the DM is expected to handle ability checks.

Those rules are clear but they're also extremely broad, and you have yet to cite and explain how they don't actually apply to the situation I've described. I could maybe see the rule for ability checks interpreted in such a way that you could decide that there's no chance for a PC to fail to actually hide an object, and therefore no need to call for an ability check, but that's still a judgment call made by a DM, and not a universal one. The rules for advantage/disadvantage are also quite clear in giving the DM broad latitude in deciding "positive or negative circumstances surrounding a d20 roll". Again, I can definitely see why some DMs wouldn't ever think to or want to adjudicate that situation in exactly that manner, and it may very well be simpler to adjust the DC up or down instead, but to say that the rules support that interpretation exclusively is just not supported by what little text is there.

 

[Seramus]

This would not influence the ability check relevant to the task, it would increase the difficulty of the task.

In other words, you would not modify the seeker's ability check with disadvantage, you would raise the Difficulty Class of finding the hidden item.

No, I would impose disadvantage upon the searchers because I am the DM, and that is my ruling.

 

[mrpopstar]

No, I would impose disadvantage upon the searchers because I am the DM, and that is my ruling.

Sure, but such a ruling makes evident a clear misunderstanding of ability checks and how they are modified by advantage or disadvantage.

 

[Seramus]

Sure, but such a ruling makes evident a clear misunderstanding of ability checks and how they are modified by advantage or disadvantage.

You are certainly welcome to that interpretation in your own games. But please refrain from suggesting that other people are running their games badwrong.

 

[mrpopstar]

You are certainly welcome to that interpretation in your own games. But please refrain from suggesting that other people are running their games badwrong.

All I've said is that manipulating the difficulty of a task is best represented by a manipulation of Difficulty Class.

Your counter is that you can manipulate the difficulty of a task by modifying my attempt at the task because you're the DM and because you say so.

As a player in your game, if I attempted to find a hidden item in a group of potted plants and you imposed disadvantage on my attempt, I would question the negative circumstances that you're modifying my d20 roll to reflect.

Would your answer be, "someone hid the item you're searching for in one of these plants and then moved other plants in front of it, so you have disadvantage." ??

I'm not suggesting you're running your games wrong, I'm suggesting that there's a better, more sound, logical, rules-supported way to go about doing what you're doing.

 

[Seramus]

As a player in your game, if I attempted to find a hidden item in a group of potted plants and you imposed disadvantage on my attempt, I would question the negative circumstances that you're modifying my d20 roll to reflect.

Would your answer be, "someone hid the item you're searching for in one of these plants and then moved other plants in front of it, so you have disadvantage." ??

Yes. And then I would show them Page 183 where the rules specifically cite moderate foliage as a circumstance where creatures have disadvantage on Wisdom (Perception) checks that rely on sight. Unless the character was taking the extra time to tear apart the room and dig through every drawer, cushion, and potted plant in sight.

 

[mrpopstar]

Yes. And then I would show them Page 183 where the rules specifically cite moderate foliage as a circumstance where creatures have disadvantage on Wisdom (Perception) checks that rely on sight. Unless the character was taking the extra time to tear apart the room and dig through every drawer, cushion, and potted plant in sight.

If my stated task was an attempt to find an item in a group of potted plants, you would modify my attempt at the task with disadvantage and explain that the area is lightly obscured due to moderate foliage.

 

[Seramus]

If my stated task was an attempt to find an item in a group of potted plants, you would modify my attempt at the task with disadvantage and explain that the area is lightly obscured due to moderate foliage.

You don't know it's hidden in a potted plant. You walk into a room, in search of something important. Where could it be? Under the bed? In the dresser, maybe a secret compartment there? Any loose floorboards? Several plants in the corner?

The object is actually buried in the dirt of the furthest potted plant. The minute signs that the dirt has been disturbed are obscured by the moderate foliage of the plants in front of it. The DM asks you to roll perception with disadvantage. You fail? You don't know where to start looking. You'll have to guess, because the guards are coming soon. You succeed? You notice the dirt of the potted plant in the back has recently been disturbed. Bingo!

 

[mrpopstar]

You don't know it's hidden in a potted plant. You walk into a room, in search of something important. Where could it be? Under the bed? In the dresser, maybe a secret compartment there? Any loose floorboards? Several plants in the corner?

The object is actually buried in the dirt of the furthest potted plant. The minute signs that the dirt has been disturbed are obscured by the moderate foliage of the plants in front of it. The DM asks you to roll perception with disadvantage. You fail? You don't know where to start looking. You'll have to guess, because the guards are coming soon. You succeed? You notice the dirt of the potted plant in the back has recently been disturbed. Bingo!

My described action has remained consistent as a stated attempt to find an item in a group of potted plants--thus my confusion--but I am able to see and understand your scenario.