Catalog of discussions on the "younger classics" adventures.

[Rhun]

I could also talk a little about Undermountain as well.

I actually really enjoyed Undermountain. I slew more characters in the depths beneath Waterdeep than anywhere else, I think. I still use Undermountain in conjunction with 3.X sometimes.

 

[drscott46]

OK, cool. I'll pick one and go for it.


Heh heh. I had to consciously stop myself from writing "module" when making the post. Old habits... .


Ugh. No. I bought it specifically so that I could run Azure Bonds as a proper sequel. Not impressed. But I'll save that for later...

This thread might also be a good place for any suggestions as to what to discuss. Undermountain is a good choice - will definitely have to include that one. Post any more ideas here...

The TSR Archive should provide a good bout of memory-jogging.

All I've ever heard about the Avatar Trilogy adventures is criticism. Like most FR players, I loved the novels and never bought or played the modules. I'm wondering if there's anyone out there who thought they were good. I also treated any of the FR Underdark products that way- read the Drizzt novels, loved 'em, never touched the RPG material because I shunned high-level play. (I remember thinking at the time that high-level characters automatically made munchkins out of players. And my players probably would have taken the hard right down Munchkin Ave., too.)

I've never played or read the HHQ series- the one-on-one "(Class) Challenge" products. If I'd known about them growing up, I might have gotten to play more D&D- it was far easier to find one friend than four or five.

I get the impression that 2e-era Greyhawk is a sore spot for many of you. Frankly, I don't remember paying Greyhawk even one tiny bit of attention, ever, before getting into Thomas Miller's net.saga "The Adventurers". In fact, I remember getting my Dragon magazines in the mail in the early nineties and just automatically flipping past any GH article I saw. It was as if it didn't exist. That seems to have been something of an accidentally prescient view. But I wonder if there were lost gems in this period of Greyhawk's existence... just don't ask Gary about 'em.

I know Dark Sun, Ravenloft, Spelljammer, and Birthright have their dedicated fans to this day, but I'd also love to know about the quality of the pre-published adventure material. For many of TSR's 2e-era campaign settings, it was more difficult to write your own stuff and feel like it was "good". It always seemed like players in these "genre" settings ended up having to use more pre-pub material.

 

[drscott46]

2ed style was different. it focused more on filling out the adventures (no longer called modules) with information and stats that basically required you to use them.

instead of a bare bones format like the 1ed/D&D classics.

this had a lot to do with the introduction of the late 1ed mods like Dragonlance and Ravenloft.


in 2ed they became much more their own settings. 2ed also went ape with settings. birthright, dark sun, hollow world, planescape, spelljammer, ad naseum...

For me, I always felt like I was someone who was far better at interpreting someone else's material rather than create my own. I know that sounds sort of ridiculous given the choice of hobby, but I guess I felt like I trusted these professional writers to come up with more creative stuff than I could, and viewed my DM craft as more about what to use, where and when to use it, and how to play it out.

I'm still not sure if I was like that because of the tone of the post-Gygax products or because I was just naturally like that and found that tone perfect for my style. Chicken or egg?

---
And I'm with you on TSR's '90s fetish for New and Different campaign settings. It seems like at some point around 1990 someone high up decided that all the "core" AD&D players were playing homebrew and were going to write everything themselves anyway, so the company might as well focus on creating alternatives to that. Funny that it only ended up being one of the innumerable things that cut into sales, huh? If TSR had taken the creme de la creme of the material on hand and released it as flagship, setting-neutral product, things may just have turned out a little differently. As it stood, players would ignore anything that wasn't core rules, splatgear, or emblazoned with their particular setting's symbol.

It all makes a lot of sense now, not that I was thinking about it then.

 

[Jefe Bergenstein]

Return to White Plume Mountain easily eclipses the original. I'd be curious to hear others experiences.

 

[el-remmen]

I would posit that the "true" classics and best adventures of the 2E period are to be found in the pages of Dungeon.

A couple of times I have tried to foster a discussion on particular ones without much success. Perhaps, I should model such a thread after Mark Hope and Quas and go super specific - or perhaps, an issue at a time?

Hmm, that might work.

 

[drscott46]

I would posit that the "true" classics and best adventures of the 2E period are to be found in the pages of Dungeon.

A couple of times I have tried to foster a discussion on particular ones without much success. Perhaps, I should model such a thread after Mark Hope and Quas and go super specific - or perhaps, an issue at a time?

Hmm, that might work.

Can you link the discussions you attempted? Perhaps they might yet live.

 

[el-remmen]

Can you link the discussions you attempted? Perhaps they might yet live.

Yeah, I went looking for the most recent (a review of a particular "old" issue that I meant to contrast with a more recent issue, but never got around to it), but it must have been lost in the great board crash of '06 - anything before that might be either from an older incarnation of the boards, or someone else's thread I tried to help along. . .

 

[Arnwyn]

All I've ever heard about the Avatar Trilogy adventures is criticism.

And rightfully so. Ed Greenwood has even said that he was horribly hamstrung when writing them thanks to the rather dreadful novel trilogy. Which leads me to:

Like most FR players, I loved the novels

Guh? While I'm glad you enjoyed the novels, I think the "like most FR players" is completely out to lunch... ahem... somewhat inaccurate.

A couple of times I have tried to foster a discussion on particular ones without much success.

Did you? I remember when you said you were planning to, and then waited with baited breath, never seeing them. I missed them!

Perhaps, I should model such a thread after Mark Hope and Quas and go super specific - or perhaps, an issue at a time?

FWIW, I like the 'issue at a time' format...

 

[drscott46]

And rightfully so. Ed Greenwood has even said that he was horribly hamstrung when writing them thanks to the rather dreadful novel trilogy. Which leads me to:


Guh? While I'm glad you enjoyed the novels, I think the "like most FR players" is completely out to lunch... ahem... somewhat inaccurate.

'Tis a spot where I should have used the unimpeachable "many". The novels may not have held up terribly well over time, but I liked 'em just fine when I was in junior high. They were, at least, original. I am guessing that the dog's breakfast of authors used to write them may have disrupted their continuity a little bit. But they were good enough at the time, and were also popular enough to spawn several sequels (Prince of Lies and another one whose name I can't recall at the moment). So I guess they got the job done, not that that's a hearty endorsement or anything.

I can think of several FR novels that were far worse off the top of my head- most of the first Salvatore trilogy, especially The Crystal Shard, a couple of the Harpers books (The Night Parade is the one that especially stands out in my head)- but the absolute worst, without a doubt, was the Pools of Darkness CRPG tie-in novel. Just amateurish.

As much as I respect Ed's own work, a couple of his own FR novels were pretty iffy as well.

 

[Joshua Randall]

Here's one -- I bought, but never got a chance to run, Return to the Tomb of Horrors. It read fantastically, but I'd like to hear how people actually experienced it.