Characters of SMACK, the PbP game of horrid munchkinism

[Jeremy]

Yup. Start out with an 8 times empowered Endurance and drop a few persistent spells and suddenly those DC 50 Fort saves will mean little. Still working out the actual order and selection of spells for the least hassle each morning.

 

[reapersaurus]

oh, yeah - I agree, stealing from initial entries is only with permission.
I won't use the Spelldancer.
Maybe I could ask your character in-game to plop a super-empowered Eagle's Splendor on, if it can beat a piddly +6 bonus...
Speaking of which, I've been looking thru the books for a +3 weapon enhancement - mind if I use Wrathful Healing?
I hadn't seen that one.

I really think that Spelldancer thing is dangerous, tho: who couldn't benefit from free metamagic spells?
This seriously completely breaks the magic system of 3E, it's that bad.

 

[Jeremy]

Yup. Never could bring myself to use that particular mechanic on any of the DM's I play with (or on my PC's).

Wrathful Healing doesn't cut into my niche, so go for it if it's ok with Jeph. As for a multiple empowered Eagle's Splendor, it'd be my pleasure. Part of the draw of the character, he's a buffing machine.

 

[DM_Matt]

Reaper: the limit on spelldancers is that it takes them one round per level of the spell (after metamagiking) to cast their spelldances. thus, they suck in combat. This ability is actually pretty weak, BUT they did not count on people using it to make items, which makes it horribly broken.

 

[reapersaurus]

when you can get Persistent spells for free, casting them up to 24 hours ahead of combat, I'd conclude that the "drawback" of taking a long time when casting the spells is a complete non-issue.

Meta-magic feats were 'balanced' with the absolute necessity of having them increase the level of the spell they're enhancing.

If there IS no cost, than the magic system as designed breaks.

And this from just 1 level of PrC that can be taken as a 7th level.

Actually, it takes the spelldancer a number of rounds equal to the spell levels higher than normal.

And Jeremy - I feel the same - the stuff I'm including in my Smack I would feel slimy if I brought into a real game.
But that's the great part about this adventure of Jeph's.

BTW: The spelldancer says "The spelldancer chooses one or more metamagic feats to apply to a spell"
Does this in any way restrict her to only using a feat she knows once?
If that was the case, it would stop the most abusive parts of multiple-Empowering, but still leave the gaping hole of Persistent spells wide open (but really, Persistent spell should never have been added in T&B in the first place - I believe many people deny the use of it...)

end: i ran out of time to type out tonight.

 

[Jeremy]

Seeing as there is no descriptive or rules text anywhere that specifically allows for double application of metamagic feats, I'm not surprised that the line is not included in the class ability description of a prestige class. But if double application is allowed, then I'd say yes, a spelldancer can double apply a metamagic feat just like any other caster.

I think there may be an example of someone using a double empowered spell either in fight club or in an NPC's tactics I read in a module, but other than that it is difficult to find anywhere where it specifically says you can apply the same metamagic feat to a spell more than once.

 

[reapersaurus]

Very good point, Jeremy - actually you can infer from the rules as written that there shouldn't be multiple-metamagic feats applied to one spell:
The fact that enhancement bonuses for even the most powerful magic buffing itemns stop at +6.

fairly clear rules support by inference: too bad WotC isn't interested in clarifying the rules in any serious way, even YEARS after publishing them.

 

[Elric]

reaper- that's not true. You can get greater than +6 bonuses with a single-empowered buff spell. Double-extended spells do not have any problems that single-extended ones do not. Hmm... twin spell applied twice would be triple spell, right?

Having magic items of +8 Str for 64k and +10 Str for 100k would be powerful, but not game-breaking with 260k to spend. The only game breaking part about multiple metamagics (empower) is the ability to do it so many times.

Consider removing the +5 enhancement cap for magic weapons- which one would you want. A +6 Sword for 72k, or a +1, Keen, Holy, Flaming, Shocking Sword (later GMW'ed to +5) for 72k?

 

[Jeremy]

+7 and greater to stats is covered in the ELH and is very accessible, just works on a different cost scale.

Same with +6 and greater weapons.

 

[reapersaurus]

hey - do you guys think Barbarian Rage and Lion's Fury would stack?
I've been assuming they would, but I just wanted to confirm it...