Class list for PHB

[GX.Sigma]

Because assassin is a job, not a class. So unless the entire party are assassins there's not much point to playing one. Unless its to use the party as cover for your job while you pretend to be something else. This goes for ninja too, of course.

I don't understand your argument here. Can you explain in more depth? How come "guy who is good at stealing" can be a class, but "guy who is good at killing" can't be?

I mean, assassin can be a "job" in the sense that any kind of character can be hired to kill someone, but being an assassin implies some specialized training and skills.

 

[ComradeGnull]

I don't understand your argument here. Can you explain in more depth? How come "guy who is good at stealing" can be a class, but "guy who is good at killing" can't be?

I mean, assassin can be a "job" in the sense that any kind of character can be hired to kill someone, but being an assassin implies some specialized training and skills.

Comparing assassination with stealing is actually quite a nice comparison. Any class can steal, but different classes do it in different ways, just as any class can kill.

You can have a Fighter who steals by just mugging people or killing them, a Wizard who steals by teleporting in and magically looting the building, a Ranger who... presumably robs bears, or you can steal by deception, stealth, and dexterous skill- the traditional Rogue.

I think the problem is that if an Assassin is a stealth-based killer, then the overlap with Rogue is really high- Rogues archetypically include such things as stabbing people in the back, breaking and entering, poison, infiltration, etc., so you're left with a big challenge trying to distinguish Assassins from Rogues without making Assassins so narrowly defined that they don't fit many campaigns- the complaint about some of the 'shadow magic' type Assassin classes that we have seen before. On the flipside, if my Rogue wants to focus on killing people from ambush, why should I have to multi-class to Assassin to achieve that- isn't sneaking in and attacking from the shadows exactly what the Rogue is supposed to do? If Assassin is just 'Rogue, but better' why have a Rogue? If an Assassin is just a specialty of Rogue, why not build that into the base class since we are also likely already going to see sneaky Rogues, brute Rogues, swashbuckling Rogues, etc.

If the Assassin is broader than a stealth-based killer, it seems like it could pair just as well as a focus for Rangers (hunt them down and kill them in an ambush in the wild or a sniper focus) Fighters (challenge them to a dual or just add a little skill/infiltration utility to a fantastic melee combatant), Wizards (magical infiltration, magical traps, magical bombs & sabotage) or a Cleric (death god cleric with abilities that focus on 'crossing over' unwilling victims) or something else entirely.

 

[GX.Sigma]

I think the problem is that if an Assassin is a stealth-based killer, then the overlap with Rogue is really high

I've always felt that Assassin should be a subclass of Rogue--an "assassin" scheme for the D&DN Rogue isn't too hard to imagine.

Rogues archetypically include such things as stabbing people in the back, breaking and entering, poison, infiltration, etc., so you're left with a big challenge trying to distinguish Assassins from Rogues without making Assassins so narrowly defined that they don't fit many campaigns- the complaint about some of the 'shadow magic' type Assassin classes that we have seen before.

What worries me is that, with their current philosophy, this may happen again--you can use Rogue to create a sneaky backstabby type, but Assassin will presumably be a class that is a very specific thing in "the" world of D&D.

Which works fine for Paladins, Rangers, Druids, and Bards, which have always belonged specifically to Greyhawk, but Sorcerers and Assassins? Those are broad enough to be in any setting.

 

[The Shadow]

I've always felt that Assassin should be a subclass of Rogue--an "assassin" scheme for the D&DN Rogue isn't too hard to imagine.

That's how I'm hoping it will be done. Problem, though: Each scheme is supposed to also be a background. What would the 'Assassin' background be? The Spy background seems close, I suppose.

What worries me is that, with their current philosophy, this may happen again--you can use Rogue to create a sneaky backstabby type, but Assassin will presumably be a class that is a very specific thing in "the" world of D&D.

It could be made to work, provided they don't go too specific. If they confine themselves to 'a secret society of assassins that trains its people in killing', that should be fine.

Which works fine for Paladins, Rangers, Druids, and Bards, which have always belonged specifically to Greyhawk, but Sorcerers and Assassins? Those are broad enough to be in any setting.

I think at this late date, none of those classes can really be said to belong specifically to Greyhawk any more. They no doubt have a specific meaning within that setting, but they've been core classes for a while now.

 

[Minigiant]

To me for the Assassin to be a justifiable class, it must either:

Be magical and focus on assassination beneficial magic.
OR
Focus hard on the build up, 3 turns and you DIE/FAINT mechanic of 3e and 4e

 

[GX.Sigma]

That's how I'm hoping it will be done. Problem, though: Each scheme is supposed to also be a background. What would the 'Assassin' background be? The Spy background seems close, I suppose.

I totally support an Assassin background--it would be lovely on a Cleric. I could imagine Stealth, Open Locks, and Societal Lore, and the trait would be that you're working for some employer who may occasionally ask you to off someone. Yee, I may just write that up right now for potential one-off playtests.

I think at this late date, none of those classes can really be said to belong specifically to Greyhawk any more. They no doubt have a specific meaning within that setting, but they've been core classes for a while now.

Sure, but I was speaking classically (and that trend is something that the D&DN team and I share a distaste for).

Focus hard on the build up, 3 turns and you DIE/FAINT mechanic of 3e and 4e

This should be how Rogues/Assassins work in D&D, but I haven't really seen a good example of this in tabletop gaming. The Sniper feat from the current playtest feels like a good step; it also might be intriguing for Assassins to have a resource like CS dice which they build up by studying a target.

 

[Moon_Goddess]

You know, I understand it doesn't belong in every campaign.. But I really enjoyed the shadow magic assassin, thought it was a great concept

Just becuase it doesn't fit every campaign doesn't mean it doesn't belong in the book. Wizards don't fit every campaign, neither do clerics. Heck I could probably think up a campiagn fighters don't fit in.

 

[Minigiant]

This should be how Rogues/Assassins work in D&D, but I haven't really seen a good example of this in tabletop gaming. The Sniper feat from the current playtest feels like a good step; it also might be intriguing for Assassins to have a resource like CS dice which they build up by studying a target.

I could see a whole class if it is used..

An assassin could have a 5% per Assassin level chance of a Instant kill (Con save or die)

Assassin can use an action to increase their Assassination chance by 10%.

Level 5 Assassin.

Hide action. 25% chance.
Focus. 35% chance.
Focus. 45% chance.
Focus. 55% chance.
Focus. 65% chance.
Focus. 75% chance.
Focus. 85% chance.
Focus. 95% chance.
Crossbow bolt. 95% chance of insta death. Save or Die Mr. Hill Giant.

 

[ComradeGnull]

I could see a whole class if it is used..

An assassin could have a 5% per Assassin level chance of a Instant kill (Con save or die)

Assassin can use an action to increase their Assassination chance by 10%.

Level 5 Assassin.

Hide action. 25% chance.
Focus. 35% chance.
Focus. 45% chance.
Focus. 55% chance.
Focus. 65% chance.
Focus. 75% chance.
Focus. 85% chance.
Focus. 95% chance.
Crossbow bolt. 95% chance of insta death. Save or Die Mr. Hill Giant.

This is the other thing with Assassin as a class- their entire theoretical focus is the quick kill, but to me instant death doesn't make for a great mechanic for a PC class. To keep the Assassin from blowing up every encounter with instant kills at higher levels, you start facing the temptation to introduce immunities- which then turns the Assassin back into a Rogue. How do you balance something like that with the other classes, so that the Assassin doesn't end up either the star of every encounter (when he insta-kills the big bad after a few rounds of doing nothing) or really bored (when he waits too many rounds, and the big bad dies before he can do anything because he was too busy chargin up hz lazers)

 

[Minigiant]

This is the other thing with Assassin as a class- their entire theoretical focus is the quick kill, but to me instant death doesn't make for a great mechanic for a PC class. To keep the Assassin from blowing up every encounter with instant kills at higher levels, you start facing the temptation to introduce immunities- which then turns the Assassin back into a Rogue. How do you balance something like that with the other classes, so that the Assassin doesn't end up either the star of every encounter (when he insta-kills the big bad after a few rounds of doing nothing) or really bored (when he waits too many rounds, and the big bad dies before he can do anything because he was too busy chargin up hz lazers)

The keys is to branch the aspects of his assassination skills into other pillars.

Here are my ideas.

1) Let the assassin craft poisons and explosives so they have something to do while stalking.

2) Make death attack weak but useful when not powered up. Branch the set up into other pillars.

Death Attack: Assassins are natural born killers. They are lethal combatants and are feared for their murderous ways. With a dagger, arrow, or spell, an assassin can end the life of an enemy or target in an instant.
Benefit: Once per round, you can make a Death Attack attempt against someone. If you successfully deal damage to an enemy that round, you make make a. Death Attack check. If the check is successful, the target must make a Constitution saving throw or die instantly. The DC for this saving throw is 11+ your Intelligence modifier. As you level, the DC may increase as well.
The base chance of Death Attack effect is 5%. As you level, your Death Attack chance increases. At no time can your death attack chance exceed 95%.

Cold Focus: Assassin have full control of themselves and an almost supernatural awareness of their bodies and the bodies of others. With this obsessive attention to detail, assassins are deadlier and harder to deal with when their eyes are on you.
Benefit: As an action, you can focus on someone not hidden from you. You have advantage on any contests opposing this individual. You can only focus only on one target at a time per assassin level. Your focus only last as long as the target is not hidden from you.

In addition, your focus increases your Death Attack chance by 10%. You can repeatedly focus on an individual, each time increasing you death attack chance. If you fail a Death Attack attempt or the target becomes hidden from you, your Death Attack chance resets back to the value given by your assassin levels.

3) Make assassins squishy so they cannot KO BBEGs without serious help. Solo assassins can only kill nobodies.