D&D 5E Comment on the negative article by John Dodd

[Cybit]

FWIW, I have the same group of kids do the PFBB and the 5E starter set. While they liked the minis and stuff of PFBB; the 5E starter set ended up appealing to them more overall. Part of it is that going from the PFBB to full Pathfinder is much more of a jump than the 5E starter set to the full 5E ruleset.

Especially for younger players, who generally have far more ad-hoc / non standard actions they want to do. Taking them from the simplified rules in PF for ad-hoc activities to the formal rules for grappling, tripping, etc, was a complete dealbreaker for them.

They're both fantastic products and they both do their jobs well. I do agree with the critique of the initial review that the reviewer already had their conclusion in mind from the beginning though.

 

[Dausuul]

Maybe to you. To me, it's the most important factor. I can blow $12-$20 on a Starter Set. Above that amount, I really can't justify it. That $20 price point is my line-in-the-sand for impulse and nonessential purchases. And I am not alone in that, as study after study shows it's one of the most key price points in the United States for consumers.

Agreed. I intend to buy the Big Three books the instant they hit the shelves at my FLGS. I hardly ever run prefab adventures and have no real need for the Starter Set. But I went out and picked one up anyway, out of a combination of curiosity and Red-Box nostalgia. I would not have done that if it were $35-40. And I've got a good salary and no kids; I'm not hurting for disposable income.

As others have said: You can't just ignore price or treat it as a minor issue. It's not a minor issue. It's a big deal. All other things being equal, if the Red product costs twice as much as the Blue product, and Red delivers 1.5 times the value of Blue, then a fair comparison says Blue is better value for your money.

 

[Savage Wombat]

Agreed. I intend to buy the Big Three books the instant they hit the shelves at my FLGS. I hardly ever run prefab adventures and have no real need for the Starter Set. But I went out and picked one up anyway, out of a combination of curiosity and Red-Box nostalgia. I would not have done that if it were $35-40.

True for me as well.

 

[Thaumaturge]

Agreed. I intend to buy the Big Three books the instant they hit the shelves at my FLGS.

Lame. I plan on being there before the books make it to the shelves.

Thaumaturge.

 

[Jester David]

The entirety of your post is weighed down by value judgements. I'm not sure there is much truth to any of them (or I may agree - its irrelevant). What I do know is that, assuming the product isn't trash (and especially if its a big name brand) , the prospects for product proliferation are increased when something is priced in the $12 - 20. $30 - 50 is a price range beyond the impulse purchasing of parents, last minute gift buyers, and obnoxious kids. That was my entire point. For someone to review a product and act like that is an irrelevant detail is risible.

This whole thread is weighed down by value judgements, mostly because someone said something by Pathfinder was better than a comparable D&D product.

The Starter Set is $20. It's only $12-19 if ordered in advance from a website. Impulse purchases and last minute buyers seldom purchase from a website with delivery. That's an entirely different audience.
That's the high end of an impulse purchase, and, again, the game doesn't fit well as an impulse purchase by parents as their children are old enough to make their own impulse purchases.
Last minute gift buyers are more likely to look for a single purchase rather than two smaller purchases, which necessitate them continuing to look.

I'm not saying price is entirely irrelevant, just that it's not the sole factor determining the quality and success of a product. If faced with two products people are going to lean towards buying the les ps expensive option, unless it seems too much cheaper. However, if a product is too cheap it risks not meeting minimum expectations. People will dismiss the product, even if they own it.
But my main point was that the Pathfinder box, might be the better designed product. And that has nothing to do with price. Continually focusing on how much cheaper the Starter Set is just skirting the issue of other quality.

 

[Zaran]

Yeah I don't think the article was a fair comparison. I think they are not the same products. The DnD Starter is really just an Adventure much like Keep on the Shadowfell. It's not designed to be a stand alone game. It's the reason why I actually purchased the product which is something I've never purchased any other starter box besides the first red box of Basic DnD (That really was my starting purchase for the hobby). To be apples to apples, we would probably need to compare the Free pdf along with the Starter box to Pathfinder's Box.

With the free pdf, a GM will be able to do an entire 1-20 campaign. You can't do that with Pathfinder's Box. Bringing new players and showing them two products isn't very fair but they will not understand the differences and the fact that after one, you have to purchase another product. After the other, you have the option of having everything for free.

I would have done a comparison on the adventures provided and not just on the contents of the boxes.

 

[billd91]

For me the problem with the review is that it is an Apples vs Oranges comparison.

People keep saying this but I think it's a bogus distinction. They're both introductions to their respective games and aimed at new players, aren't they? Or do people really feel that the Starter Set, for some reason, isn't intended to play that role? I'm pretty sure that's exactly the role the Beginner Box is intended to play.

I suppose I could see an argument that the D&D Starter Set is more aimed at re-attracting the D&D market as a teaser product. But I think that would be a very short-sighted role for the product. It may be a good marketing strategy for WotC - after all, even I bought one and I'm skeptical it meets the $20 value in the face of the Players Handbook's much greater utility coming out only a month later.

 

[The Black Ranger]

Yeah I don't think the article was a fair comparison. I think they are not the same products. The DnD Starter is really just an Adventure much like Keep on the Shadowfell. It's not designed to be a stand alone game. It's the reason why I actually purchased the product which is something I've never purchased any other starter box besides the first red box of Basic DnD (That really was my starting purchase for the hobby). To be apples to apples, we would probably need to compare the Free pdf along with the Starter box to Pathfinder's Box. With the free pdf, a GM will be able to do an entire 1-20 campaign. You can't do that with Pathfinder's Box. Bringing new players and showing them two products isn't very fair but they will not understand the differences and the fact that after one, you have to purchase another product. After the other, you have the option of having everything for free. I would have done a comparison on the adventures provided and not just on the contents of the boxes.

Actually, it is a stand alone product. You don't need any of the books to play it.

 

[The Black Ranger]

People keep saying this but I think it's a bogus distinction. They're both introductions to their respective games and aimed at new players, aren't they? Or do people really feel that the Starter Set, for some reason, isn't intended to play that role? I'm pretty sure that's exactly the role the Beginner Box is intended to play.

I suppose I could see an argument that the D&D Starter Set is more aimed at re-attracting the D&D market as a teaser product. But I think that would be a very short-sighted role for the product. It may be a good marketing strategy for WotC - after all, even I bought one and I'm skeptical it meets the $20 value in the face of the Players Handbook's much greater utility coming out only a month later.

I would just like to comment on your great post Bill.

I actually think the free downloadable PDF is what's intended to bring back those other gamers because hold outs probably have their own dice and maybe a few adventures.

The starter set screams new players to me.

 

[Mistwell]

Oh, and the Beginner Box is priced at $24 on Amazon. Two $12 Starter Sets is the exactly the same price as the one Beginner Box.

It's $29.50 right now on the U.S. Amazon. Maybe the price went up? Though I think the D&D starter set went up in price there too...not sure, mine was $12.60.