Congratulations to the 2015 ENnies Award Winners!

Umbran · Aug 2, 2015

redrick said:
I think JeffB's entitled to his criticism of the particular award!

"Entitled" carries a few connotations that we may not want to apply here.

How about we say he has a right to an opinion. I think we can agree to that. With that right does come a responsibility to be thoughtful in exercising the right.

Is laying a big stinkin' load of negativity in the first response fulfilling his responsibility with that right? That is highly debatable. Moreover, it isn't a very good way to advocate for the changes he'd want. The way he presented it makes it look far less like a considered and thoughtful position, and far more like a sore loser, at least to me. Luckily for JeffB's points, I am not a person he actually has to have that conversation with in order to advocate for change.

kenmarable · Aug 2, 2015

Congratulations to the winners!

And for anyone to be surprised that popularity is a factor in a largely fan choice award, well, I'm not sure what to say. The ENnies have always been a fan-based award, which necessarily means that popularity/obscurity will be a factor, and of course high priced "prestige" items will have an uphill battle. I'm surprised a $120 boxed set even took any awards at all - silver or gold. But the ENnies are fan awards and I'd hate to see that change.

jeffh · Aug 2, 2015

Maxboy said:
I heard on twitter, that some people walked out of the ceremony? is that true

A lot of people have problems with Zak, and therefore with Red & Pleasant Land, mostly because of some incredibly dishonest things that have been said about him in various places, which in certain corners of the Internet, it is fashionable to believe uncritically. Any shred of fact-checking will quickly show that they're false and that in any case, many of the accusers are guilty of worse.

And that's probably all that's worth saying about it here, because it's basically pointless drama from other parts of the 'net that I'm sure ENWorld's mods don't want spilling into here. I'm willing to discuss it further but ENWorld is not the appropriate forum.

Chimpy · Aug 2, 2015

I've DMed the 5e starter set adventure for 3 groups and they all loved it.

I think D&D 5 deserved all the awards. It perhaps would have been a bit nicer to see some more variety but it being the 5e year of release it's not surprising. I expect we'll get a wider spread of awards next year.

I guess the question of "is something good because it's popular?" is really hard to answer. If we're talking about modern music then I'd say definitely no. I think people often like what other people like and what they are exposed to. But I think in 5e's case it's well deserved.

Stacie GmrGrl · Aug 2, 2015

There is no way the D&D Starter Set should have won anything Production Values related. Most of the awards are fine, but this one definitely shows the fallacy of how these awards are set up and how anything D&D related would basically win automatically simply by name recognition since this is all popular opinion anyways once the nominations are announced and shared.

Jiggawatts · Aug 2, 2015

Umbran said:
Moreover, I am not sure how to put this gently. You have an opinion about the production values. That's great. Have you considered that, even after you normalize for sales, maybe WotC would still have won? Especially given the price points - if people are thinking "value per dollar" maybe your favorite isn't as great a buy.

Is that what the defined judging criteria is for the Production Values category? I always took it that it was for the most crisp, highest quality product, not the best-bang-for-your-buck product.

Zak S · Aug 2, 2015

I think the Ennies serve a different purpose for WOTC and Paizo than they do for smaller publishers. For them, they answer "Ok, the fans like this, but how much?". For smaller publishers, they answer "Have you arrived yet?"

Red & Pleasant Land beat the PHB in a category or two, Vornheim (a few years ago) lost to a pack of dungeon tiles. I don't think anyone would say this is because--even in fans' eyes--Vornheim is much worse than Red & Pleasant Land. It's simply a measure of the fact that the publisher, LotFP is, in 2015, definitely "here to stay" as a regular publisher of real RPG books in a way that was harder to say than a few years ago when Vornheim was nominated.

The Ennies may be a popularity contest they may have some flaws, but they do seem to be a canary in the coalmine for some commercial realities.

Maggan · Aug 2, 2015

Congratulations to all who won Gold or Silver, and also to those that were nominated.

I am surprised WotC swept the awards, and that Paizo "only" won 3 silver awards. But I am sure next year will be more "even", without a major new edition setting its mark. Also hope for more small publishers doing well.

Will be looking at Red and Pleasant Lands, The Guide to Glorantha and Mutant.

HotOE is cool and jam packed with stuff. Never before has the description "bursting at the seams" been more apt, since that is what the box did in two places when I carried it home from the shop.

Umbran · Aug 2, 2015

Jiggawatts said:
Is that what the defined judging criteria is for the Production Values category?

Well, note that a uniform, defined judging criteria may drive the judging round, but not the voting round. In the voting round, the category means what the voters think it means. The judges certainly seemed to thing HotOE qualified for nomination. After that, it isn't the judging criteria's fault.

There may be an important* philosophical question in here: Should a product win an award if the product is inaccessible to the audience?

*Not important on the grand scheme of things, just in terms of our discussion. The Ennies are an award for a niche-gaming market - we are discussing awards for things that help us pretend to be elves, so no Earth is being shattered here.

Jiggawatts · Aug 2, 2015

Well then every voter should be made aware of the parameters by which a category is judged before participating. Either that or the whole system needs to be revamped to be more concise across the board.

Also, HotOE isnt inaccessible, literally anyone can go onto the Chaosium site and purchase a copy. An example of inaccessible would be if Monte Cook had made Numenera for his own personal use, never releasing it for public consumption, and then tried to submit it to the ENnies. That would be product inaccessibility.

And the "it shouldnt really matter because this isnt life or death serious" argument is a fallacy, if you are going to do something (i.e. hold an awards cerimony in this case), do it right and respect it properly.

Congratulations to the 2015 ENnies Award Winners!

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