Congratulations to the 2015 ENnies Award Winners!

Cergorach · Aug 2, 2015

Honestly when I look at the images op the Internet of both HotOE and D&D5E box, both are kinda disappointing to be honest. I don't have either product, but the 5E box looks minimalistic and the HotOE looks like something I might pick up in the eighties, not bad in itself, but also with the production values of those days. The Booklets look B&W with 'Meh!(tm)' quality paper. The only difference is that there's a lot more stuff in the HotOE box then the 5E box, not surprising as one is six times as expensive as the other. Either product does not fill me with joy on production values based on the pictures I found on the Internet. I might 'judge' differently if I had either product in hand... Maybe I'm spoiled ;-)

kenmarable · Aug 2, 2015

Jiggawatts said:
Well then every voter should be made aware of the parameters by which a category is judged before participating. Either that or the whole system needs to be revamped to be more concise across the board.

Also, HotOE isnt inaccessible, literally anyone can go onto the Chaosium site and purchase a copy. An example of inaccessible would be if Monte Cook had made Numenera for his own personal use, never releasing it for public consumption, and then tried to submit it to the ENnies. That would be product inaccessibility.

And the "it shouldnt really matter because this isnt life or death serious" argument is a fallacy, if you are going to do something (i.e. hold an awards cerimony in this case), do it right and respect it properly.

1) It seemed pretty clear that "inaccessible" here means difficulty of access, not literally locked away for no one to get to. A high price tag absolutely qualifies for that, and that meaning seemed obvious in this conversation.

2) You are operating under the premise that the ENnies are doing it wrong. You may disagree with a winner, even passionately disagree, but that doesn't make it objective truth that they are doing it wrong.

3) As for making criteria explicit, fan awards don't work that way. In fact, probably most awards decided by large groups rather than small select juries don't work that way (even many juried awards don't either). Outside of ice skating and dog shows, it's really very common to leave the judging criteria up to those voting. Sure, you can vote for whoever has the most vowels, but that sort of silliness is rare. In most cases (including every award I have voted for, and especially the ENnies since creation), what constitutes "Best Product" or whatever involves so many factors that are so highly subjective that strict criteria would stifle fan voting rather than free it.

So in many people's opinion, including my own, the ENnies aren't doing it wrong. We disagree with the entire premise of your argument. Sure, an occasional win might have a lot of disagreement, but disagreement could lead to a lot of discussion about great products rather than insinuations that the ENnies are sloppily run.

Jiggawatts · Aug 2, 2015

I didn't mean to be terse or off-putting, I quite enjoy the ENnies every year, I didn't happen to watch this year but I watched the live stream for the whole event last year. With that said, theres a reason why actors have Academy Award Winner and not Peoples Choice Award Winner next to their name in marketing material.

BrockBallingdark · Aug 3, 2015

I was at Gen Con and pumped my fist to see 5E win the categories that it won. They finally turned it around and never loved the game more. Congrats to WOTC and the other winners.

Echohawk · Aug 3, 2015

Stacie GmrGrl said:
There is no way the D&D Starter Set should have won anything Production Values related. Most of the awards are fine, but this one definitely shows the fallacy of how these awards are set up and how anything D&D related would basically win automatically simply by name recognition since this is all popular opinion anyways once the nominations are announced and shared.

Hmmm... for me personally, the price tag has a huge impact on who I think should win the "Production Values" category. When voting, I'm thinking "what do I think of the production values given that this is a $20 product" and "what do I think of the production values given that this is a $120 product". I'm not asking myself "what do I think of the production values of this $120 product compared equally to the production values of this $20 item". If that was supposed to be the basis for voting, then surely the more expensive products would always have an unfair advantage in that category?

delericho · Aug 3, 2015

Echohawk said:
Hmmm... for me personally, the price tag has a huge impact on who I think should win the "Production Values" category.

I'm a great believer in things doing what they say on the tin. "Best Production Values" should be exactly that.

If that was supposed to be the basis for voting, then surely the more expensive products would always have an unfair advantage in that category?

I would say it's an entirely fair advantage. After all, the other guys had the opportunity to spend the money if they really wanted.

Morrus · Aug 3, 2015

I think every person has their own voting criteria. For some, value or cost might come into it; for others, it might not. All each of us can do is vote according to how we feel and accept that others might not vote the same way.

billd91 · Aug 3, 2015

JeffB said:
Glad to see I am not the only one. I LOVE my Starter Set too, but it's like comparing the wood grain D&D box and the pathfinder beginner box in production values and giving the nod to the lbbs.

I did not realize the ENNies are essentially a popularity contest. I figured over time there was some sort of mechanism implemented in the voting to balance out products that sell by the tens of thousands to products that sell in the several hundreds.

There is a mechanism for balancing out products that sell in the tens of thousands and several hundreds - it's the nomination process. It's possible for a massively sold product to be beat out by smaller press offerings if those smaller products are better in the eyes of the panel of judges. It may be true for an 800 pound gorilla like D&D to win the award by name recognition... once they get over the threshold of the nomination. But by then, the nomination has done its job of raising the market's awareness of the other products in the same category.

ShadowDenizen · Aug 3, 2015

HOTOE losing out to the Starter set for production values kind of sets the tone for the multiple facepalms ..not surprising.

I woudn't go so far as to "Face-Palm", but I did find this choice surprising.... (Though I am thrilled, as always, that CoC was recognized, and HotOE especially, given the pains it took to get this book out to the general public!)

So, "Congrats" to all the winners; I'm pleased that I have had a chance to look at almost all the published products this year; it was a great year for gaming!

ShadowDenizen · Aug 3, 2015

How much of the 200K kickstarter funder pledge goals made it into the actual boxed set I can buy from store? All of them? Or was all that add on stuff just for the kickstarter people?

I'm not a backer for this; I bought my physical copy online, and got it for just under ~$80. . (My FLGS didn't have copies in stock, or I likely would have shelled out the differnce to support my FLGS.)

And I'm quite happy with the price to content ratio; it matches if not surpasses most of the boxed sets I've picked up within the last decade. (And this is from someone who bought QUITE a fww deluxe edtions and boxed sets, inclduing "Rappan Athuk Remastered", "World's Largest Dungeon", etc.)

While I'm (obviously) not privy to the finances of Chaosium, given the size and contents of the boxed set (which weighs in at ~8 pounds!), I'd wager a large chunk made it to the final product. (Chaosium apparently LOST money in promising as much as they did for the backers, as they are just now in the final stages of getting most of the extra goodies to their backers!)

Congratulations to the 2015 ENnies Award Winners!

Cergorach

The Laughing One

kenmarable

Hero

Jiggawatts

Adventurer

BrockBallingdark

Explorer

Echohawk

Shirokinukatsukami fan

delericho

Legend

Morrus

Well, that was fun

billd91

Not your screen monkey (he/him)

ShadowDenizen

Explorer

ShadowDenizen

Explorer

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