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Coolest. Gaming Set-up. Evar.

rjdafoe

Explorer
I just bought the Samsung L220 and I like it. Check out my blog here on ENWorld for how I am building my setup with it. I am rear projecting from under the table. If you follow that link, it comes with a spare bulb as well. I think it is a great deal.

I agree - share pictures! I am always looking at what other people are doing for this type of stuff.
 

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Steel_Wind

Legend
I just bought the Samsung L220 and I like it. Check out my blog here on ENWorld for how I am building my setup with it. I am rear projecting from under the table. If you follow that link, it comes with a spare bulb as well. I think it is a great deal.

I agree - share pictures! I am always looking at what other people are doing for this type of stuff.

Yeah, the extra bulb is a huge bonus on that deal. The poster is in Denmark though and I am not sure that the vendor in that link will ship there. There may also be potential import duties to pay as well to factor in to the cost, together with increased shipping costs. Even still, I think it's a much better deal, imo -- and for a better projector than the ones he noted.

If GentleGiant is not aware, a replacement lamp for these projectors cost about $300 +/-. So when a lamp goes, it's a big deal.

With a new lamp in the projector and a spare, assuming the lamps work for ca. 1500 hours each, you are unlikely to ever need another replacement bulb for as long as you own the projector if you are just using it for gaming purposes.

Depends on the frequency of your game sessions and the lenght of an average session when you are using the projector. Still, for, say, a 6 hour session, once a week? That's about 300 hours of use per year.

Ten years of lamp life from two bulbs is a very conservative estimate with lamp life these days. You could easily get 50%-100% more usable projection time per lamp. (Or less, either way, you are covered with an extra lamp)

So with two lamps? That's a LOT of projection time. My guess is that whatever technology we use to replace an XGA projector in the coming decade will be what causes you to discontinue the use of the projector in favor of something else. Chances are very good that it won't be the end of your projector's two lamps.
 

GentleGiant

Explorer
I can't seem to find the Samsung L220 anywhere in Europe, only the L200 (haven't done a step-by-step comparison, but it seems like it's only the Lumens that's different - 2200 vs. 2000 obviously) - and even then it's hard to find any who'll ship to Denmark.

My own ceiling height is 8½', but I'm still contemplating a portable set-up (e.g. like the one linked to a few posts back) since we usually play here or at a friend's house, so I'll have to take that into account too. I'd also rather not have to drill into the ceiling, since it's rock-hard steel-bar reinforced concrete. :-S
Instead I'll probably go with the "portable box" (or a similar set-up) or maybe something based on IKEAs Stolmen line.

EDIT:
Nope, the Visualapex people that rjdafoe bought from don't ship internationally. I could have it shipped to my cousin in Florida and then have her send it to me, but I'm unsure what that'll cost me in international shipping.
But yeah, the free extra bulb is definitely a good deal.

EDIT 2:
Just did a little research. Even with international shipping the entire thing (the L220 from above) would probably hit $600 at the most (that's for 11 lbs. USPS Priority Mail International). If it's snatched up in customs there might be an extra 25% VAT charge + maybe an extra % in duties (although from the list available to me I can't figure out what category a projector would fit into - laptops and consoles (xbox etc.) are 0% duties, while digital cameras are either 4.9% or 12.5%... I so love the straight forward import rules :-S )
 
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Steel_Wind

Legend
I can't seem to find the Samsung L220 anywhere in Europe, only the L200 (haven't done a step-by-step comparison, but it seems like it's only the Lumens that's different - 2200 vs. 2000 obviously) - and even then it's hard to find any who'll ship to Denmark.

My own ceiling height is 8½', but I'm still contemplating a portable set-up (e.g. like the one linked to a few posts back) since we usually play here or at a friend's house, so I'll have to take that into account too. I'd also rather not have to drill into the ceiling, since it's rock-hard steel-bar reinforced concrete. :-S
Instead I'll probably go with the "portable box" (or a similar set-up) or maybe something based on IKEAs Stolmen line.

EDIT:
Nope, the Visualapex people that rjdafoe bought from don't ship internationally. I could have it shipped to my cousin in Florida and then have her send it to me, but I'm unsure what that'll cost me in international shipping.
But yeah, the free extra bulb is definitely a good deal.

EDIT 2:
Just did a little research. Even with international shipping the entire thing (the L220 from above) would probably hit $600 at the most (that's for 11 lbs. USPS Priority Mail International). If it's snatched up in customs there might be an extra 25% VAT charge + maybe an extra % in duties (although from the list available to me I can't figure out what category a projector would fit into - laptops and consoles (xbox etc.) are 0% duties, while digital cameras are either 4.9% or 12.5%... I so love the straight forward import rules :-S )

I'd go for the Florida relay for the L220, but that's me.

In my opinion, you will greatly regret using the portable cage system noted above. There is, however, more than one way to skin that cat.

The Stolmen idea is a superior one, provided the screws/spring holds. If it does not, there is another, similar approach:

Look in whatever passes for the equivalent of a Home Depot in Denmark. What you are looking for is a portable beam/ceiling support. They come in varying lengths and are used in renovations. The one you want should be about 8' long or thereabouts. Most of the device is painted yellow and made of steel. It unscrews to collpase can be screwed to lengthen the overall support, too. If you recall spring loaded tension mounted cabinets for bathrooms (a very '70s item), it works in the same manner, but it far more sturdy as it uses tension created by a large screw and not a simple spring.

(If it is too short for your 8' 6" ceiling, put a block of wood, cinder block or some other support on the floor to help bridge that 6" gap.)

In use, this vertical support is screwed out, lengthening the overall bar and screwing it into place, vertically between ceiling and floor. When done, you have a strong vertical support wherever you need it, held firmly in place with northing more than pressure. To this, you add a horizontal bar of arbitrary length (7 feet, say) by simply drilling a hole with a slightly larger diameter than that of the extendable portion on the vertical support. Slip the horizontal bar over the part of the threaded steel screw before the vertical support is screwed into place. (the rest of the verticla support bar is significantly larger in diameter, so this part acts as a rest for your horizontal bar, preventing slippage.)

In the result, you now have a horizontal arm of whatever length you need which can be easily maneuvered by swinging it over your table, while the vertical support is comfortably out of the way of players and DM both. You then attach your projector to the horizontal arm in whatever way seems best to you.

The entire thiing can be taken down in moments and transported to where you need it. There is no drilling required in your ceiling. Most importantly, there is nothing on the table which obstructs your players view of the projected map.

The projection cage in the link above is a really impractical idea imo as it discounts the comfort of the players. It's just far too awkward to use at the table -- and too expensive to boot. People sits down and need to look at each other and interact feely with the map, not have support bars in their way as they are trying to play a RPG. The vertical support bar and the horizontal arm described above is entirely out of everyone's way and the horizontal arm itself is about 3" lower than the ceiling. It's not something that anybody is going to notice or have to look around as they play your game.

You could create an arm for holging the projector over your table using a "C" clamp to hold the arm to the table as well. Very large clamps are available for use in wrodlworking projects to hold wood together as it is glued, etc. While it would take up some room at the table, at least it would not be something people have to look through as they are gazing at one another over table -- nor would they have to reach around it to interact with your map.

I am sure you are well able to consider other options to suspend your projector as well which are more convenient and user friendly than the cage in the link above.
 
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GentleGiant

Explorer
Of course, if I had the money I'd buy the Sanyo PLC-XL51 - the "big brother" to the PLC-XL50 but now with 2700 Lumens, SD card slot, networking capabilities and so on.
This is the Sanyo that has been mentioned earlier in the thread, with a throw distance of only 3-15"!
"Only" $2,299.-
 

BruntFCA

First Post
NWN Toolset and going LCD route

I was interested to learn what people claim they did with the *Neverwinter Nights* toolset ONE.

I fired this up, and yes its nice and fast, but the grid size it totally off. One grid is about 100 feet? Now I can make a "huge" area in the toolset at about 32by24 grid. I can them "zoom" out and pretend that these are 5 foot grids. However. This has a number of problems.

1 The graphics are not really "scaled" to this level. So at this extreme zoom out, a lot of the effects and images are frankly useless.

2 The grid itself is the most annoying bright red colour, totally *ruins* the map.

Now if there was some way of getting a grid onto it, maybe some transparent photoshop file that you can put into a texture? I don't know, but since the original pictures have been taken down, I have trouble believing that the NWN toolset in its current state would be any good at all.


As for the VTT. I think I'm going the LCD route, less hassle, less DIY. Also the players hands wont cast shadows on the map.

I'm going to simply buy a thin mount for about $40, take the platsic casing off the LCD, and then mount; the mount fixing itself will be screwed into a base of wood. Job done; I will worry about making a nice "box" for it afterwards.
 

Steel_Wind

Legend
I was interested to learn what people claim they did with the *Neverwinter Nights* toolset ONE.

I fired this up, and yes its nice and fast, but the grid size it totally off. One grid is about 100 feet? Now I can make a "huge" area in the toolset at about 32by24 grid. I can them "zoom" out and pretend that these are 5 foot grids. However. This has a number of problems.

1 The graphics are not really "scaled" to this level. So at this extreme zoom out, a lot of the effects and images are frankly useless.

2 The grid itself is the most annoying bright red colour, totally *ruins* the map.

Now if there was some way of getting a grid onto it, maybe some transparent photoshop file that you can put into a texture? I don't know, but since the original pictures have been taken down, I have trouble believing that the NWN toolset in its current state would be any good at all.

You are referring to the scaling issue of furnished interiors I presume? A grid square in NWN terms is, as I recall, about 32 feet or thereabouts? Something like that.

For unfurnished interiors, this has few significiant graphical effects as you can use zoom to get rid of the issue. It becomes an issue only for when you are then looking to furnish your interiors. Once you do, the scaling you meant to "fix" by zooming is shown to be clearly off once again.

The solution to this is to turn to NWVault. You want to download a few hak paks and a utility to create another custom one.

The first haks you grab are the "stripped" tileset haks, which are all the interior tilesets used in NWN1, with all of the furniture stipped out of each of the tiles.

This removes most of the distracting graphical scaling issues automatically for you. They vanish.

To re-add the furniture, you then use a utility on NWVault's site to autoscale placeable furniture to the "correct" size for one tile = 5' or 10'. You then use that placeable hak as your default in the toolset for all your placeable furnishings. It sounds hard and "techy" - but it's quite easy to do.

The scaling problems you mention then completely go away.

As for the grid being an issue for you, I don't use the Grid in the toolset. I project on to a white surface which has a pre-printed 1" grid on it. My grid is therefore always correct (and is never red) :)

Anyways, that's how I have dealt with those issues. Stipped tilesets, resized placeables and an external grid. When all of those features are present, the issues you identify are reduced to -10 hits and promptly die. It's well worth it to me as the speed with which I can build and detail a map in NWN1 is rather breathtakingly fast, if I do say so myself. I expect I can lay down an external area and detail it NWN1 faster than most people can draw it on a battlemat.

These are, btw, rarely issues which crop up for use in external areas. The main issue in external area is the "gridlock" look, where NWN's square grid sructure can look "off" and too tidy when there are multiple buldings on the map that are near one another. In cities it's fine, but in towns and rural area? Not so much.

Again, there is a hakpak to download off of NWVault to fix this. I recommend using placeable buildings instead of tile based buildings so the "grid" layout in NWN1 goes away and you can have buildings put down at arbitrary angles, rotations and distances from each other in a completely arbitrary manner wherever you want.

Again - for those familiar with NWN1 custom content, placeable buildings frequently broke AI pathfinding when used to play the module in a computer game. For our purposes however, we don't need in game pathfinding and AI to work bug free because we aren't using the Toolset to create a computer game. It just needs to look pretty in the toolset for use as a projected map :)

Placeables buldings is the silver bullet for this problem.

As for the VTT. I think I'm going the LCD route, less hassle, less DIY. Also the players hands wont cast shadows on the map.

I'm going to simply buy a thin mount for about $40, take the platsic casing off the LCD, and then mount; the mount fixing itself will be screwed into a base of wood. Job done; I will worry about making a nice "box" for it afterwards.
Do be sure to post pictures of this approach. I am greatly interested. In my view, the Dynex 40" 1080p flat panel at Best Buy for $499 seems to be the most practical and affordable candidate for such an LCD approach.

Please post pics when you have it up and running. I'd love to see it installed in a table "in game".

I have no doubt that this is a very viable approach if constructed properly. In the coming years, especially as flat panels drop in price more, this will become the default choice in preference to projection.

Not sure we are there quite yet, but I certainly am very interested in what you plan to do.
 
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BruntFCA

First Post
Thanks Steel for the awesome reply. In finally got HotU installed ( was only at NWN1 ) last night. Was a huge hassle due to lost keys, scratched CDs. updates issues etc etc, but I got it all together in the end; I even had to "best buy" a new CD set for NWN though :-(

I'm going to zip it all up into a "Never Delete" directory and archive it off, I never want to go through that hassle again!

Could you re-up or attach some screenshots of what you've done?

I'm off to try your suggestions, I do like the "fire pits" in the toolset a lot. Cheers.
 

BruntFCA

First Post
Actually, do you have a name for that resize utility?

Taken a look on the vault and hit the NWN forums. People there only seem to know about "monster" resizers.
 

Steel_Wind

Legend
Actually, do you have a name for that resize utility?

Taken a look on the vault and hit the NWN forums. People there only seem to know about "monster" resizers.

If you have found a thread on monster scaling, that's the resizer to use for the placeables as well. The NWN Mdl format for placeables is the same and scales the same way.

I believe you will need to export the mdl in ascii format, however, as you will not be able to scale a model that if it is is left in binary mode.
 

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