Crusade

[Kahuna Burger]

But to extend your analogy... if the Warp Engines are akin to the Federation as a whole, consider in how many episodes the Warp Engines get damaged, break down, have an anomoly put the kibosh on them... and the plot hinges on them being repaired. Dramatic, isn't it? Well, the same should hold true for the Federation/Star Fleet. We don't need to know how it works, but it sure as Hell ought to break down from time to time just to keep things interesting....

ah, but to extend the extension...

The warp drives to not suddenly turn out to be flawed in design. As you say it takes damage (from terrorist attacks on a government) a break down (such as when colonists are stranded for so long their interests become radically different from the federations) or an anomaly (like the invasion of parasitic nasties in high levels of power) to cause a problem, and many episode have in fact focsed on solving that sort of problem with the machine of the federation. But Gordi does not call up to the bridge one day and say "captain, I just realized that the whole warp drive design is flawed and we can expect star ships to start blowing up once they hit 80,000 light years" and ST does not tell stories about the failure of their entire system of government.

I perfer the black box method to stories like starship troopers which do spell out a "perfect" system of government, with many asides about why it is perfect. Just like it gets silly when start trek tries to use real science (introns, anyone?) its detracts from the story when sci fi tries to show The Future of real politics.

Kahuna Burger

 

[Mallus]

ah, but to extend the extension...

The warp drives to not suddenly turn out to be flawed in design.

OK, to be extra geeky {wow, mega-extra geeky, MC 900 Ft. Jesus's "If I Only Had a Brain" just came on}.

Anyway, recall that Warp Drive propulsion maybe in fact be fundementally flawed --it might just damage the fabric of spacetime itself {see the Space Speed Limit of TNG}.

So to stretch this analogy well past the breaking point; just as the Black Box object called "Warp Drive" might eventually precipitate disaster on a cosmic scale, the Black Box object called "the Utopian Federation" might eventually render dramatic storytelling impossible in the ST universe, thus precipating an equally cosmic disaster, this time in the metacritical sense...

Ah, best I could, I'm tired and getting sick...

 

[Viking Bastard]

Which was a trouble that got fixed in either DS9, late TNG or VOY.

Y'know, Voyager's nacelles movin' when it goes into warp, that's
the solution. Then later, it was said off-screen (by the producers
when FC came out I think) that a better solution was designed
that was retrofitted into older ships (which didn't need any nacelle
movin').

In other words, that's them sayin': "I wish we hadn't done that story!".

 

[Mallus]

Which was a trouble that got fixed in either DS9, late TNG or VOY.

One Black Box problem down, one to go...

 

[Villano]

Yeah, IIRC, that was about right. Also, don't forget that Paris from Voyager was also in "prison". The intent I think is to show that crime is wiped out, people who commit crimes do so because they're unbalanced or misunderstood or something. Punitive measures are seen as backwards and barbaric, so everyone's rehabilitated. Unfortunately, "rehabilitation" seems to be more a matter of re-education and brainwashing.

I think there was an episode of NG that actually said that crime was a mental disease that needed to be treated (or words to that effect). But it does come off as being scary in the real world. Anyone who does something illegal is taken away and "treated".

I think most people would rather spend a few years in prison than having someone go into their head and "fix" their way of thinking.

I think the Maquis are the true heroes in the Trek universe. These guys basically left Federation space so they could live free lives, and yet the Fed turns around and shafts them by giving the planets to the Cardassians. Then the Cardassians turn around and try to remove the colonists, by any means necessary. The Federation doesn't seem at all concerned about their plight, in fact, some might even say the Federation allowed the Cardassians to attack the colonists as a way of silencing the opposition while keeping their hands clean.

I thought I was the only one! No matter what the writers did, the Maquis always came off as more sympathetic than the Federation.

And, IIRC, the Maquis situation began when the Federation basically gave the Cardassians Federation territory as part of a treaty.

But, here's the thing, what was the treaty about? The war had been over for years, so it couldn't have been part of a peace agreement. What was the Federation getting in return? Seriously, has an explanation ever been given?

 

[Viking Bastard]

As I understand it, the peace talks had been goin' on for years
/decades. These were the systems they were finally able to
agree on.

I too always found the Maquis more sympathetic than the Feds.

And from what I can gather from interviews with the writers
through the years, is that the Maquis were made sympathetic for
a reason, that they had a good valid case for saying that they
were mistreated. The idea was that they were not supposed to
be 'wrong' but reacted to it 'wrong'. That is, resorted to Terrorism
instead of other more peaceful ways.

Personally, I feel that the writers screwed it up royally by never
showing us the Maquis doing really bad things. Like blowing up
restaurants an' stuff. We were told that they were doing some
bad things, but never shown any. All it needed was some kids
crying over the scarred bodies of their parents or the burned
remains of toddlers, but this being Trek, nooooooooo.