D&D 4E D&D 4E fans: what do you like about 4E?

[DammitVictor]

I'm not really a fan, and some of the answers you've already gotten are the reasons why... but there are a few parts of the system I really admire.

POWERS: Every character has class actions they can do all day, every day, and big class actions they have to marshal and only deploy when the time is right. (E is cool too, but it's bonus cool.) Goes a very long way to make it feel like all the players are playing the same game.

HEALING SURGES: Your adventuring party doesn't need a healer, but playing a healer is important and satisfying.

COMPETENCE: Shorter, broader skill list plus half-level bonus to untrained skills makes PCs feel like experienced adventurers.

POWER SOURCES: A more elegant way of linking the supernatural elements of certain classes together. Finally splitting the power source of the Cleric and Druid. Psionic and Shadow.

PSIONICS: Best implementation in D&D ever.

RACE DESIGN: Unique racial powers that actually matter after 6th level, racial feats that allow nonhuman PCs to differentiate themselves even further, flexible ASIs? If "race" and "class" are going to be separate concepts in D&D, this is the gold standard for making them equally significant.

I could probably come up with several more if I were having a better night. For all my gripes, Fourth Edition really is a slick piece of craft.

 

[Eyes of Nine]

PSIONICS: Best implementation in D&D ever.

ooh, good one - I totally forgot about the Psionics being a full source of power, equivalent to Arcane or Martial (I mean, I didn't forget the fact, but forgot that I also found that to be a really great part of 4e)

 

[DammitVictor]

I also meant to include the monster design, full stop, as good as it's ever been and as good as it ever will be again.

 

[Zeromaru X]

ooh, good one - I totally forgot about the Psionics being a full source of power, equivalent to Arcane or Martial (I mean, I didn't forget the fact, but forgot that I also found that to be a really great part of 4e)

I also forgot this, lol. Psionics in 4e are really integrated into the world lore. You know why they exist and their place in the world. They are their own stuff, well defined, not just "psychic magic".

 

[Joshua Randall]

I also meant to include the monster design, full stop, as good as it's ever been and as good as it ever will be again.

Monster design with actual coherent rules spelled out for the DM. Early 4e had a few bumps but the famous 3e MM math fixed that. And, making a monster as a DM is 4e is both straightforward and deeply satisfying.

To indulge in personal anecdote: I’ve been playing and mostly DMing since 1983; 4e in 2008 was the first time I actually felt good about creating monsters.

 

[Dausuul]

First up: I'm a huge fan of 4E. This isn't a sell me on thread. I'm already right there with you.

I am curious what fans of 4E like about 4E. There's a lot to like and I know what I like about it, but I'm curious what the draw is for others.

Above all, the setting and cosmology. It's a thing of beauty, by far the best of any edition. I was very sad when 5E (which I mostly like) went back to the Great Wheel.

 

[Zeromaru X]

I was very sad when 5E (which I mostly like) went back to the Great Wheel.

Likewise. This is one of my main gripes with 5e. The lore just doesn't gets me, and somehow that sours my experience with the rules, lol

 

[pemerton]

Above all, the setting and cosmology. It's a thing of beauty, by far the best of any edition. I was very sad when 5E (which I mostly like) went back to the Great Wheel.

Well, it is prophesied that the Dusk War will be succeeded by the re-creation of the Lattice of Heaven!

 

[Randomthoughts]

Much has already been written that I agree with. But here are a few highlights/additional comments:
(NB: I skipped 3e so if these first appeared there, kudos!)

Joy to GM: I took a hiatus away from D&D after 2e (skipped 3e due to RL being super busy at the time) but wanted to come back and try out the new edition. I largely ran a homebrewed Dark Sun (more on that) and loved it! Prep was fast, especially monster creation and encounter development. The rules seemed to "get out of the way", allowing me to be in the moment and focus on the PCs and what they were doing.

4e also hit the sweet spot for me in terms of PC lethality. I never liked "save or suck" mechanics. But the robustness of PCs and the death save mechanic (which I toyed around with to increase mortality as well) encouraged me to "go all out" during tactical battles as I do enjoy the wargaming aspect of RPGs.

Speaking of which, the AEDU structure also allowed me to play around with the resting mechanics to accommodate periods of frequent recharging (like dungeon crawling) vs infrequent (like overland travel). This allowed me to run mainly set piece battles.

I thoroughly enjoyed GMing 4e.

Effects-Based Powers, Reskinning & Stunting: I've played a lot of superhero games (especially HERO/Champions) so 4e's effect-based powers really resonated with me. Powers were consistent and straightforward. Yet the flavor text (akin to HERO's "special effects" or SWADE's "trappings") were easily reskinned. Page 42 is often cited to allow stunting, but IME the sparse flavor text practically encouraged "power stunts".

Here's an example: my first 4e PC was an avenger (martyr). I swore an Oath of Enmity against a boss, who had escaped. Mechanically, my PC gained advantage on attacks against the boss when it was the only enemy adjacent to me. Under RAW, the power should end have ended, but I saw the Oath as creating a mystical connection to my quarry. So, the GM allowed me to "track" the boss to his lair, after getting being boosted by a Cleric and Wizard in a short skill challenge.

Dark Sun: Like @TwoSix, I think 4e was the best implementation of Dark Sun. Themes and Inherent Bonuses IIRC were first introduced here. Themes were especially flavorful that allowed a wider range of PC options. Survival Days were a simple mechanic but maintained DS' emphasis on survival. Warlords were not only cool as a new official class but fit perfectly in DS. The setting also set the foundation for differentiating power sources. Martial classes were popular - especially since they didn't attract attention. Nor did low level psionics as everyone (at least the PCs) had a psionic wild talent, making psionics the "default" magic of the setting. And I also liked how Psionics were mechanically different from arcane (and others) if you wanted to specialize in that. The Arcane Defiling rule differentiated arcane casters (which I later boosted to tempt PCs). I don't recall Primal receiving any special bonuses so I made it the "anti-arcane" power source that REALLY drew the attention of SKs.

Skill Challenges: Yes, this has been mentioned. But as a framework to resolve conflicts, I found this to be a useful (but not perfect) tool that I continue to use in most of my games (including SWADE, where I prefer this over their Dramatic Tasks).

4e Fans: There is so much I enjoyed from 4e. But I'll stop here. Especially back in the day where there was a lot more vitriol, I appreciated all the 4e innovations from fans that are often quoted even now: MM3 math on a business card, multi-stage boss fights, different takes or actual play on Skill Challenges (especially @pemerton 's examples), numerous high level actual plays (never got there myself, but great examples on what to shoot for) and @Zeromaru X 's compilation of Nentir Vale lore and mythology. [I'll look for and embed actual links but can't atm]
I've said this before, but I believe 4e fans knew more about 4e (what it was capable of, how it could be improved) than the devs ever did.

 

[overgeeked]

and @Zeromaru X 's compilation of Nentir Vale lore and mythology. [I'll look for and embed actual links but can't atm]

No need. There’s a thread on that.

https://www.enworld.org/threads/nentir-vale-lore-pdfs-for-the-uninitiated-dm.698687/