D20 Modern vs. Spycraft: Tell me which one you like better

[Vigilance]

Oh, and there's Psionics in B13 too. Any thoughts on that?

Well, d20 Modern handles psionics well. One of the best things about using d20M as your base system is that it's pretty easy to rope in anything from typical d20 Modern that you want to use, so if you wanted a psionics heavy game it would be pretty easy to adapt the XPH to d20 Modern and give your players a lot more options.

You wouldn't even really need to change the classes found in Psitech to do this I don't think.

For me, that's what it's all about. I know d20M like the back of my hand, partially because the rules aren't different enough from standard d20 to trip me up as I move back and forth, and there's a boatload of material out there designed for fantasy (Unearthed Arcana, Psionics, Sword of Legends) that I can rope in as needed to easily and simply tweak the game.

And since it's so easy, I can do it on the fly as needed, either for a one shot villain or something that will be integrated into the campaign as needed.

Chuck

 

[Masada]

We're going to make a SC 2.0 convert out of you yet, Vigilance! *hehe*

I read Blood & Fists. I know you like integrated complex rule sets.

I agree with everything you said about d20, it sure is easy once you know it all. But SC does have some nice adds...

 

[Matchstick]

You wouldn't even really need to change the classes found in Psitech to do this I don't think.

This reminds me. If any of this stuff is referring to something other than base D20 Modern please let me know, I'm not familiar with any expansion stuff for D20M. Is Psitech something like that?

Is there a good spot I can go to learn about D20M and it's expansions?

EDIT: Found Masada's link to resources up a little higher in the thread, that looks to be a great place to start!

 

[Vigilance]

We're going to make a SC 2.0 convert out of you yet, Vigilance! *hehe*

I read Blood & Fists. I know you like integrated complex rule sets.

I agree with everything you said about d20, it sure is easy once you know it all. But SC does have some nice adds...

I agree. I like SC 2.0 and think it's a sweet rules set. In stating my preference for d20M that is all I am stating, a preference, not trying to say one is TEH SUCK while the other is TEH BOMB or anything.

For me and my players, the SC rules were a study in confusion. We were tripped up by the differences in the rules (some of them little) when we played SC and then when we went *back* to our regular B&Vigilance we were tripped up AGAIN by those same differences.

So as someone who flits between genre a lot, running a lot of D&D, d20M, d20F and Legends fantasy games, the many smaller differences were a bigger problem than the big differences.

So again, for me, it's about a choice between two good games, not between a bad one and a good one, cause um, that's an easy choice.

Chuck

 

[SteveC]

Would that be this?

http://www.amazon.com/-Bureau-13-So...o_k2_dp_k2a_3_txt/104-5584637-7706366?ie=UTF8

I had no idea they were talking about releasing rules again. Heck, there's a couple B13 books up there I haven't read, and that I'm going to order right away. The release date seems to be December 1, but I can't find any more information on it, including on their site. I'd really like to know whether it's D20.

You guys are giving great advice, and I really appreciate it. For right now I'm trying to flesh out the story, and then I'll be heading toward putting it in game terms. Right now I'm leaning more toward D20 Modern just because of the familiarity (as Pbartender says above) but really I'm still pretty open.

Oh, and there's Psionics in B13 too. Any thoughts on that?

I believe that's it. I had heard they were going to release a systemless rules supplement (basically info on the Bureau) but then it changed to a D20 Modern release. D20 Modern could do the job, and do it well, but I think that Spycraft reflects the style of B13 games extremely well, especially with the "gearing up" stage at the beginning of each mission.

Oh, and as has been said, you can use D20 Modern by the book for both magic and PSI, but Elements of Magic: Mystic Earth can ALSO be used for both PSI and magic based on them using different traditions to cast with.

Oh, and if you do use D20 Modern, make sure to check out the "blood and" series: especially blood and fists, blood and brains and blood and spooks...they are all takes on the modern era, and have some great rules in them to simulate the specific genres of kung fu, zombie horror and ghosts. They're the books that got me into buying PDFs and are uniformly excellent!

--Steve

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

This would be a one shot convention type adventure. There's really not a way I can see that it would grow into a campaign.

Your recommendation would be D20M with Urban Arcana if I'm understanding you correctly. Thanks for the thoughts, hopefully others will chime in.

For a one-shot, I don't think you need the full Urban Arcana campain setting. The Campaign Model from the D20 Modern sourcebook should be sufficient. You won't need any tinkering to run the game, which I think is preferable for a one-shot. (Any weaknesses or shortcomings of just using the D20 Modern core rulebook will probably not appear in a one-shot)

 

[TheAuldGrump]

I agree. I like SC 2.0 and think it's a sweet rules set. In stating my preference for d20M that is all I am stating, a preference, not trying to say one is TEH SUCK while the other is TEH BOMB or anything.

For me and my players, the SC rules were a study in confusion. We were tripped up by the differences in the rules (some of them little) when we played SC and then when we went *back* to our regular B&Vigilance we were tripped up AGAIN by those same differences.

So as someone who flits between genre a lot, running a lot of D&D, d20M, d20F and Legends fantasy games, the many smaller differences were a bigger problem than the big differences.

So again, for me, it's about a choice between two good games, not between a bad one and a good one, cause um, that's an easy choice.

Chuck

I do not think that D20 Modern is TEH SUCK, but I do think that Spycraft 2.0 is TEH BOMB.

I will admit that most of my disatisfaction with D20 Modern was because of D20 Past, but then again the only reason I bought D20 Modern was because D20 Past was coming out... it makes me a tad bitter about the whole game. If I had seen D20 Past before ordering it I would probably not have bought D20 Modern, but I also wouldn't have this annoyance with the game. I might later have bought the game and read it with fresh eyes, but as it now stands the taste was spoiled for me.

There are features of D20 Modern that I think are rather nice, and both D20 Modern and Spycraft have art that is at least interesting. (In this case I give D20 Modern the edge - some of the illustrations just beg to have scenarios or at least NPCs written around them, from the Gnoll Pimp to the Mindflayer Preacher.) I do think that D20 Modern would have been better served with the Vitality/Wounds system, but that is purely personal taste.

While I prefer the flavor of the classes in Spycraft I also like the classes in D20 Modern. Both sets of classes are very good. Though I prefer the Spycraft classes I do agree that D20 Modern classes have the edge in flexibility. With Back to Basics I can add them to Spycraft with little difficulty, and I would not be all that surprised to see the counterpart released for D20 Modern.

The NPC system in Spycraft is already being (or already has been converted?) to D20 Modern. Each game can benefit from the other.

The Auld Grump

 

[solkan_uk]

I second that, personally I was really impressed with d20 modern coming up with ideas to replace D&D and make FantasyModern (which is essentially what Grim Tales did). But then I played a couple of games of Spycraft and realised how much better it was. With SC2 now, its pushed the bar just that much further.

 

[pjrake]

I'm currently running an espionage game using the Savage World setting. It's called, Savaged Spycraft. Here's a copy of my first newsletter.

It works great; combat is fast, and chase scenes are pretty cool too!

PJ

 

[Acid_crash]

My .02 cents.

I've owned both, tried both, and like both. Add in Grim Tales, and we have three really cool systems that can emulate much of which any three can play.

If.... Spycraft 2.0 had been named Moderncraft 2.0, or just Moderncraft, then we would not be having the discussion of saying Spycraft 2.0 is primarily a "spy, espionage" game. When I think of Spycraft 2.0, I think of it as Moderncraft instead.

With the campaign qualities in the back, and the conversion documents on their forums, including the psionics and magic stuff, then it's easy to play a supernatural game using Spycraft.

I prefer to play d20 Modern more for one, and only one, reason... the way I run my campaigns, I like the Wealth system more than the Gear picks in Spycraft. I don't run mission style games myself, where people can choose to pick what gear they want for missions. That's not my preference, and so I will stick with the inferior game system simply because, for me, that's way easier for me to handle.

If you guys came up with a NON-GEAR-pick-selection system for equipment, for the classes, using a variable Wealth mechanic like d20M instead, then d20 Modern is history. Period.

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On a SIDE Note: When are you guys coming out with FantasyCraft? Huh? C'mon, I know you are thinking about it. Lots of people have been asking, off and on, over the years since Spycraft first came out. What's taking you all so long?