D20 Modern vs. Spycraft: Tell me which one you like better

[AscentStudios]

Thanks We're certainly looking forward to breaking the spy genre...a lot...with our upcoming releases. While I've written a lot of spy stuff for Spycraft, the settings I've developed and games I've run have existed almost entirely outside of the espionage realm.

As for the errata, hit www.crafty-games.com and go to the Downloads > Spycraft 2.0 section. The errata document should be there at the top, which should do a pretty darn good job of updating you to the major second printing changes.

 

[The Shaman]

Here's my metric for comparing the two systems: d20 Modern is cinematic in the style of Ronin and The Bourne Identity, and Spycraft (pick yer edition...) is cinematic in the style of Kill Bill (vols. 1&2) and Charlie's Angels: Full Throttle.

If your wahoo-meter goes to 11, then a hard look at Spycraft may be in order.

Personally I find Spycraft too over-the-top for my tastes. Make mine Modern.

 

[Armistice]

Shaman, I'm only going to say that your perception is over-representing the case. Spycraft 'allows' the dial to be set to 11 if you want to go there, no supplements required. All the options are in the one book. Modern has its upside, but doing gritty spyfiction better than Spycraft is not one of them IMO.

That's like saying that I don't like magic in my modern games so I don't use d20 Modern as there is magic right there in the corebook!!! Not very sensical. The option is there, no book nazi is going to come to your game and force you to use it.

Furthermore, things like manhunts and seductions and chases all have good rules backing them up and all found in the Spycraft corebook. The actual things spies do in fiction is modeled better by Spycraft.

To reiterate, Modern good for many things, but objectively better for any flavor of spy game (assuming non-magic spies)?! Bias aside, that isn't a very good argument and anyone who's played/run both systems will tell you the same.

 

[Psion]

Here's my metric for comparing the two systems: d20 Modern is cinematic in the style of Ronin and The Bourne Identity, and Spycraft (pick yer edition...) is cinematic in the style of Kill Bill (vols. 1&2) and Charlie's Angels: Full Throttle.

"Pick you edition", eh? The editions are not the same, especially when it comes to their range when it comes to tone. Shaman, do you even own/have you read SC 2.0? SC 2.0 explicitly enable you to change the tone of the game. With the correct campaign qualities, Spycraft 2.0 is grittier than d20 modern.

 

[Masada]

As I continue reading SC 2.0, I like it more and more. But it does have *a lot* of moving parts. I don't have too much trouble following all the modifiers and special conditions, but if I had a player new to roleplay or if I was otherwise unfamiliar with d20 mechanics, I'd probably start with d20 Modern.

I didn't mean to imply that Spycraft *had* to be a spy game. It sure doesn't. The mechanics could be used for a wide spread genres. It is geared to an agents/special ops/strike team game, however. It's a slam dunk for this type of game. It definitely can still be used for other styles.

While it doesn't have the complete campaign setting that Arcana Evolved has, SC 2.0 could easily be seen as an AE to Modern (where SC includes the DMG and Players Handbook). Spycraft is definitely Modern at the next level. Hopefully that's not an insult to anyone!

 

[The Shaman]

Shaman, I'm only going to say that your perception is over-representing the case....To reiterate, Modern good for many things, but objectively better for any flavor of spy game (assuming non-magic spies)?! Bias aside, that isn't a very good argument and anyone who's played/run both systems will tell you the same.

I wasn't making an argument - I was offering my opinion, a personal perception.

Are you really in a position to tell me I'm wrong about what I do and don't like and why?

"Pick you edition", eh? The editions are not the same, especially when it comes to their range when it comes to tone. Shaman, do you even own/have you read SC 2.0? SC 2.0 explicitly enable you to change the tone of the game. With the correct campaign qualities, Spycraft 2.0 is grittier than d20 modern.

Yes, I have read it, or I wouldn't have added the specific caveat about editions.

I don't care for many of the character abilities or the gadget rules in either edition of Spycraft - again, too wahoo for my tastes. Are you really in a position to dispute that, Psion? Or you, Armistice?

 

[Psion]

I don't care for many of the character abilities or the gadget rules in either edition of Spycraft - again, too wahoo for my tastes. Are you really in a position to dispute that, Psion? Or you, Armistice?

In a position to dispute your taste? No.

In just as much a position to comment on the picture you paint or question your understanding of the issue as you are to offer it in the first place? Yes, I am.

 

[TheAuldGrump]

Gently people, gently. No need for bickering.

Ran my SC2.0 game tonight, first time with the PCs using magic from E. N. Publishing's Elements of Magic: Mythic Earth (in this case for a spiritualist medium). While one of the PCs has had the ability to use spells he has chosen not to do much with it, having a player actually using it has shown me a few things... (mostly that I had added too many complications). Mind you, this is only the second game that I have run since finishing my summer job. And I need to talk to the players about some possibilities.

If I can get that hammered out then the next step will be tweaking the Gear system for an 1800s feel.

Looking forward to Spellbound. If it comes out soon enough I will be quite happy to add it to my game.

I will admit to being biased in favor of SC2 over D20M, though I am also looking forward to seeing what I can do with SC2 and Dark*Matter. (I might, just might, be able to tie my XCom influenced minicampaign to it.

The Auld Grump

 

[Teflon Billy]

"Pick you edition", eh? The editions are not the same, especially when it comes to their range when it comes to tone. Shaman, do you even own/have you read SC 2.0? SC 2.0 explicitly enable you to change the tone of the game. With the correct campaign qualities, Spycraft 2.0 is grittier than d20 modern.

Like...by a mile.

And the tweaks are dead-simple.

The whole process of altering the campaign to your taste takes about 10 minutes.

 

[solkan_uk]

Oh yah, Spycraft's all about the options.