Death and Dying

[Grabuto138]

I have a feeling this is a stupid question.

We have been playing it that when you take enough damage to drop you are at 0 HP, meaning that we did not calculate negative HP. You have 7 HP and take 12 damage? You are at 0.

Then you make saving throws. We made the character save against things like ongoing damage but they did not actually take the damage.
You die when someone causes damage equal to your bloodied value.

But is it?:
Take damage, up to the negative integer of your bloodied value.
You still take ongoing damage, incidental damage (splash damage, traps, etc.)
You reach your bloodied value in negatives you die.

I would appreciate a rules-smart person to lay it out for me. Thanks.

 

[OnlineDM]

If you are at 7 hit points and take 12 damage, you go to -5 hit points. At this point you are unconscious and dying.

If you take 5 more damage (say, from ongoing damage), you are now at -10 hit points.

If your negative bloodied value is -15 hit points, you're now 5 hit points from death. Better save against that ongoing damage!

If you then receive 10 hit points of healing, you start at zero and go up from there, so you end up at 10 hit points. All healing starts from zero.

So no, you weren't playing it correctly, but it's an easy enough correction to make!

 

[Will Doyle]

You can suffer damage up to your negative bloodied value, at which point you die. A character who is dying still makes saves for ongoing effects, on top of death saves. Ongoing damage and "splash damage" still affect you.

Importantly, if you receive any healing whilst at negative, you add the hit points up from zero. If a healing effect requires you to spend a surge but you have none left, you are restored to 1 hit point. Assuming you have it left, you can even spend your second wind whilst dying, but only if another creature triggers it through the use of the Heal skill.

 

[Grabuto138]

Thank you both very much.

We carry baggage going back to 1e. When I reread the Death and Dying rules today they were so "plain text" contrary to how we were doing it I knew something was wrong.

 

[DracoSuave]

That ain't no first edition thing you're doing.

In first edition, if you get down to 0 or less, you're dead, go get a soda, make a new character.

There's never been a 'pause at 0' edition of D&D nor variant rule.

 

[Oldtimer]

That ain't no first edition thing you're doing.

In first edition, if you get down to 0 or less, you're dead, go get a soda, make a new character.

You need to re-read your old DMG, DS.

When any creature is brought to 0 hit points (optionally as low as -3 hit points if from the same blow which brought the total to 0), it is unconscious. In each of the next succeeding rounds 1 additional (negative) point will be lost until 10 is reached and the creature dies.

 

[DracoSuave]

You need to re-read your old DMG, DS.

Optional rule was optional.

 

[Oldtimer]

Optional rule was optional.

Optional in what way? It's under HIT POINTS on page 82 in my old DMG. I don't see any indication of it being optional.

 

[the Jester]

Optional in what way? It's under HIT POINTS on page 82 in my old DMG. I don't see any indication of it being optional.

Umm...

DAMAGE: Damage is meted out in hit points. If any creature reaches 0 or negative hit points, it is dead.

When any creature is brought to 0 hit points (optionally as low as -3 hit points if from the same blow which brought the total to 0), it is unconscious. In each of the next succeeding rounds 1 additional (negative) point will be lost until 10 is reached and the creature dies.

Also, it says nothing about "stopping at 0". I've never even heard of the idea before this thread.

Now, rules in the 1e DMG do take precedence over the PH, but IIRC the question was addressed in either a Sage Advice or From the Sorcerer's Scroll article back in the day and the DMG rule was called out as optional.

 

[Grabuto138]

That ain't no first edition thing you're doing.

In first edition, if you get down to 0 or less, you're dead, go get a soda, make a new character.

There's never been a 'pause at 0' edition of D&D nor variant rule.

The point was that when one group (more or less) plays 4 editions over twenty years or so, trying and discarding optional rules and house rules along the way, it is easy to muddle things. But thanks for the input if I go back to 1e; I'll reread the rules.