Death & Dying - a better (and simple!) system.

[eamon]

The DM could also not tell the player his remaining hp, this would put even more suspense into the action

Well, if at all possible I like to have the player's roll their own rolls. This makes it utterly clear that they're responsible for their own fates, and it saves my time too (with six quite chatty players, my group can always use a little 'activity' therapy :-D).

 

[eamon]

Just a suggestion: make it 1 round after, to allow colleagues time to heal him.

I don't do this, because if a first level character get's hit by a maximized fireball and falls to, say, -50hp, I want them to die - period! Since magical healing (and other stabilizing forces) can otherwise always stabilize you in time, you could eventually drop to arbitrarily low hit point numbers without dying. That's kind of crazy... and in any case, if your players are getting themselves hit so hard that even one round is a serious threat, then they probably deserve to die (the fort save DC's I'm suggesting at only 1/2 neg hit points are very low and only really risky over a number of turns).

I do like Pbartender's idea of retaining consciousness somehow, but I'm not really sure how to combine the two without majorly impacting game balance - don't forget that "conscious" but not yet dead spellcasters consistently getting one more spell off (especially if they know they're about to die and can thus be reckless) is quite a bit more risky to players.

As it is, enemy NPC's are more likely to survive after being dropped, but I don't really mind that, it makes em easier to question and thus it's just another way of adding suspenseful tidbits to tease the players ;-).

 

[eamon]

Just wanted to let you know:

In tonights session, we used the system. (With 4 in a row stable modification, as mentioned above)

What happend? The sorcerer was able to stabilize after being knocked down to -9 hit points by a couble of balistae bolts, making 4 saves in a row.

Our ranger managed not to die (stbilized himself), after being droped to -17 hit points by an advanced thoqqua. During the same fight, the sorcerer died, rolling a natural 1 for is second save, after being droped down to -11 hp.

All in my group agree that this system is brilliant. It adds so much tension and fun. Tension, because it is always dangerous to be dropped. Fun, because dying without even rolling a single die to prevent that, is not that funny. (Happend in our game four sessions ago. The main tank got hit for a total of 100hp during a single round. Going from full health to death, without even having a chance to become stable)

Summary: It works Without this system, the sorcerer and the ranger would have been dead because of racing through the -10 zone. In this case it was just the sorcerer, but that was def. okay. Even better is the sudden haste to get people healed. (But that will change once sthe player of the Dragon Shaman is back, I guess.)

Cool! I tried the slight modification in which the die rolls happen on (precisely: right before) the initiative of the damage dealing (so you don't have the situation that you might need to roll twice in a row just because your initiative happened to be after the enemy's that dropped you), and that seems OK too - in that session a druid player dropped, and indeed his init was just 1(!) behind his attackers, so he was quite relieved that he didn't need to roll again right away... of course, his relief turned sour when he realized that everybody in the party relied on him to do the healing and the only person with any potions left was he himself, and he was shapeshifted :-D. Fortunately, they grabbed a potion from a slain enemy (all the while dodging empowered scorching rays from a flying bugbear sorcerer that was under the effects of improved invisibility...). To clarify, shapeshift ends when you become unconscious, but we didn't know that at the time.

What are you going to do about the fast healing issue? Is it just fine by you? It's clearly the case that the first "instantaneous" fortitude save takes place no matter what, but you could further rule that the fortitude save takes place at the start of the players turn, before the fast healing "kicks in". It's a little petty though, but not really unfair. It's a trade-off between rules-cleanness and ease of abuseability. What do you think?

 

[eamon]

Summary: It works Without this system, the sorcerer and the ranger would have been dead because of racing through the -10 zone. In this case it was just the sorcerer, but that was def. okay. Even better is the sudden haste to get people healed. (But that will change once sthe player of the Dragon Shaman is back, I guess.)

Fast Healing, such as that granted by the Dragon Shaman works just like Natural Healing. If you're disabled or dying, such as being at 0 or lower hitpoints, then Natural Healing and Fast Healing do not work. That means that the Dragon Shaman's ability won't relieve pressure once people drop. (Unfortunately the rule that Fast Healing doesn't apply while you're disabled and dying isn't entirely clear... and I don't want to get into a huge SRD discussion, but see http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=12871038&postcount=53 and consider that it's the more fun solution.)

 

[TheCrazyMuffinMan]

I like this one. I'm pretty fond of going by -CON, myself. After reaching -CON, one must make a fortitude save each round (DC all of negative hit points, not half) or die. A passed save means the person is stable, but must make the save again after CON rounds. It helps ease the pain of getting randomly taken out, and allows for anyone who's willing and able to treat the poor guy to do so, but it still allows the reaper his due.

 

[Quartz]

I don't do this, because if a first level character get's hit by a maximized fireball and falls to, say, -50hp, I want them to die - period!

Sorry I missed this. I suggest that to balance, healing doesn't obviate the save. So if your first level guy gets hit to -50 HP and then a cleric casts Heal, then he'd be fine, but if the Cure Light Wounds were cast (say for 10 HP), he'd be stabilised, but still have to make the DC 20 save.

 

[Asmo]

I voted "Naa... why bother?"

Our group has always liked the dying/death mechanic from the core books. When your time is up, you just have to go, simple as death -err,that.

These suggestions are to complicated ( think new gamers ) and just adds more to the book-keeping wich we don´t need. It´s simply not smooth enough ( if you want to change the rules)
My personal opinion is that it feels to videogamey -almost like a savegame under the fight, or that everbody just likes the Frenzied Berserker - nobody really wants to die after all.

Asmo

 

[Asmo]

Somehow I missed that I was in the House Rules forum, I´m sorry for that.

Asmo

 

[green slime]

Fortitude saves, Consitution, and Great Fortitude just became a whole lot more important...

 

[ruemere]

Another take on the Hovering at Death's Door rule...

Upon falling below 0 hitpoints (and each time additional hitpoints are lost), a character must make a Hovering at Death's Door Fortitude (base DC 10) check modified as follows:

+20 for being of Construct or Elemental type,
+10 for being of Undead or Plant type,
+4 for Toughness feat,
+4 for Die Hard feat,
+4 for each size category above medium size.

- [number of hitpoints below 0],
-4 for each size category below medium size,
-4 if hit by a Bane weapon targetting character type or if hit by a weapon bypassing character's damage reduction.


How to interpret results of Hovering at Death's Door check:

Passed by 20 or more:
Penalty to all actions equal number of hitpoints below zero.
No other effects.

Passed by 10 or more:
Penalty to all actions equal number of hitpoints below zero.
Movement rate halved.

Passed by 5 or more:
Penalty to all actions equal number of hitpoints below zero.
Movement rate halved.
Strenuous action results in further blood loss (lose 1 hp).

Passed:
Unconscious (unless possessing a Die Hard feat) but stable.
Creatures of Construct/Undead/Elemental/Plant suffer severe impairments forcing them to retake this check each round they perform any type of activity.
Movement rate halved.
Strenuous action results in further blood loss (lose 1 hp).

Failed:
Unconscious (unless possessing a Die Hard feat) and unstable (lose 1hp each round).
Creatures of Construct/Undead/Elemental/Plant are destroyed unless possessing Second Life feat (see below).

Failed by 5 or more:
Unconscious (even if possessing a Die Hard feat) and unstable (lose 1hp each round).
Creatures of Construct/Undead/Elemental/Plant are destroyed unless possessing Second Life feat (see below).

Failed by 10 or more:
Unconscious (even if possessing a Die Hard feat) and unstable (lose 1hp each round). Cannot by stabilized by unskilled characters or without aid of magic.
Creatures of Construct/Undead/Elemental/Plant are destroyed unless possessing Second Life feat (see below).

Failed by 20 or more:
Instant death or destruction unless possessing Second Life feat.


New feat: Second Wind

This feat is meant to allow tough characters to get up after being pummeled down. It should be reserved only for heroic characters, BBEGs and toughest of opponents.

Prerequisites: Toughness.

Special: When you make Hovering at Death's Door check, you gain +20 innate bonus. If successful, your current hitpoint total is brought up to 0.
You can use this feat again only after you are brought back to full health.


New feat: Second Life

This feat is intended primarily as a storytelling vehicle for bringing back seemingly dead villains. It may be also used for characters with appropriately crafted backgrounds.

Prerequisites: Die Hard or Second Wind.

Prerequisites special: Use of this feat requires reasonable in-game explanation (even it's only meant for the Game Master). In-game explanation should specify conditions to be met for regaining the ability to use the feat again.

Special: Employment of these grants ability to return to life (or regain ability to act for non-living reatures). This ability may be used either on a short notice (similar to emergency alternate power source for Terminator-like beings) or later, once the nemesis of feat user leaves the scene. In case of the former, use of the feat restores half of maximum hitpoint total and the user of the feat suffers from severe impairments (effective Challenge Rating should be reduced by half - sample impairments include: drastically reduced mobility, halved attack bonuses, loss of strongest supernatural ability, loss of half of spellcasting levels). For the latter, full recovery is possible, however, some specific and visible minor markings should remain.
The recovery time and type of recovery (partial or complete) should be specified upon acquirement of this feat.
This ability may be used more than once, however, it should not be usable without completing full recovery first.

Special cost: This ability causes the user of the ability to lose one hit-die or level per use. The cost can be bought back later with experience (or repairs), however they cannot be regained without significant effort on feat user side (instant recharge is not possible). Complete recovery required for next use assumes regaining of the lost hit die or level.


Regards,
Ruemere

PS. Added base DC to check: (base DC 10)