Deciding on a character for AL.

[Kithas]

Um no. There is no better spell for a melee Cleric than Spirit Guardians. You know what's better than 3-5 damage? 3/4/5d8 Radiant damage as you upcast, that is also difficult terrain. Turning into an infant would take a percentage that is so unfathomably unlikely it really isn't a concern.

3/4/5d8 is only 13.5,18,and 21.5 respectively, they can also save for half. Spirit guardians is good but it doesn't keep you alive, blur keeps you alive, disadv to get hit is a big deal.
And if we're comparing damage Storm sphere wins out, the aoe of damage is larger and it's 2d6(that's 7) anywhere you want it not just around you, and 4d6(14) at one target of your choice in 60' of the cloud so that does more damage at base even if you only zap, if both we are up to 21 damage without up-leveling. Up leveled both effects go up by a d6 so it even scales better than SG.
So what we end up with;
-Bigger, easier to position, aoe damage, and area denial.
-More single-target damage and focus-fire potential, works with thunderbolt strike and even our channel divinity if need be.
-Since both effects scale up up-casting it gives 7 more damage rather than 4.5.
-The bolt being lightning damage even works with Elemental adept if you've picked it up.
-Literally the only up-side to Spirit guardians is that the aoe doesn't hurt us or our allies :/



Also that 3-5 damage? That's every spell cast no questions asked, and since SS only uses my bonus action I can keep thunderwaving every round and knocking people around.
With both Heart of the Storm and Thunderbolt strike any creature Large or smaller within 10' of you will get pushed 10' back, no save no exceptions.

 

[RulesJD]

3/4/5d8 is only 13.5,18,and 21.5 respectively, they can also save for half. Spirit guardians is good but it doesn't keep you alive, blur keeps you alive, disadv to get hit is a big deal.
And if we're comparing damage Storm sphere wins out, the aoe of damage is larger and it's 2d6(that's 7) anywhere you want it not just around you, and 4d6(14) at one target of your choice in 60' of the cloud so that does more damage at base even if you only zap, if both we are up to 21 damage without up-leveling. Up leveled both effects go up by a d6 so it even scales better than SG.
So what we end up with;
-Bigger, easier to position, aoe damage, and area denial.
-More single-target damage and focus-fire potential, works with thunderbolt strike and even our channel divinity if need be.
-Since both effects scale up up-casting it gives 7 more damage rather than 4.5.
-The bolt being lightning damage even works with Elemental adept if you've picked it up.
-Literally the only up-side to Spirit guardians is that the aoe doesn't hurt us or our allies :/



Also that 3-5 damage? That's every spell cast no questions asked, and since SS only uses my bonus action I can keep thunderwaving every round and knocking people around.
With both Heart of the Storm and Thunderbolt strike any creature Large or smaller within 10' of you will get pushed 10' back, no save no exceptions.

1. *sigh*
2. Cast SG, then take every turn to dodge. Congrats, you just did better than Blur but with still damage.
3. You realize that isn't one time damage right? That's every turn/first time they enter. That is a HUGE amount of consistent damage for a 10 minute spell. The difficult terrain effect = most mobs with 30ft of movement will have to dash to reach you, negating an entire attack round.
4. You can't sculpt Storm Sphere. Aka you still hit YOURSELF AND YOUR PARTY. Moreover, the spell DOESN'T MOVE WITH YOU FOR TEN MINUTES. There is precisely zero comparison, against, for a melee cleric.

 

[Kithas]

1. *sigh*
2. Cast SG, then take every turn to dodge. Congrats, you just did better than Blur but with still damage.
3. You realize that isn't one time damage right? That's every turn/first time they enter. That is a HUGE amount of consistent damage for a 10 minute spell. The difficult terrain effect = most mobs with 30ft of movement will have to dash to reach you, negating an entire attack round.
4. You can't sculpt Storm Sphere. Aka you still hit YOURSELF AND YOUR PARTY. Moreover, the spell DOESN'T MOVE WITH YOU FOR TEN MINUTES. There is precisely zero comparison, against, for a melee cleric.

0. I understand you like spirit guardians there's no reason to get snarky.
1.You can still do whatever you want while concentrating on blur... so keep shattering etc. and be dodgey.
2.Both spells do damage every turn, so I was comparing them on an every turn basis.
3.Yes you need to put the storm somewhere where you don't want to be, that's fine, most fights don't roam that much ime so one 40' sphere is plenty. Also you don't take damage on a passed save so as long as you have str saves and a decent str you should be fine standing in the middle of it.
4. The damage on the bonus action bolt alone outpaces SG, while it isn't aoe, having range is one of the things melee clerics have issues with, so thunderwave the idiots that rush you and drop a storm on the folks far away.

The default answer to SG in my group is usually just an ensnaring strike and forget about him until last. Or just gun the guy down from range because that 15' radius will never get to us. a 120' range on a bolt? yeah that's gonna hit, and hurt.

Either way clearly this is a difference of opinion. I would urge you to try Storm sphere out in your next game, if you really find it that far inferior to sg then fine. Personally I've tried both and I know what I prefer.

 

[Jessica]

Sorry everyone for not responding back sooner. I had spotty internet for a while and have been packing up to go back to East Lansing from the middle-of-nowhere, Michigan. So far I'm playing a Drow Lore Bard, but I might still experiment and change it up. I might consider something more aggressive like Paladin or Valor Bard, but I might consider going Human just for Magic Initiate so I can have melee cantrips. I just worry that half-casters don't have enough options to keep me interested.

Before I throw my hat in the ring I have some questions. What season are you using? What books do you have access to? I'm not super familiar with AL so I don't want to suggest something that won't help.

We were doing OotA as our campaign, but I didn't really use either the SCAG or the EE PC for my character so I just didn't bother assigning a season to my character.

If you have access to the Scag I recommend a mix of Paladin and Cleric with maybe a dash of fighter.
Start Hill Dwarf, and prioritize Con->Wis->Str, Start off in Paladin, at lvl 2 go into cleric(nature for shillelagh would remove your need for str, but any domain works) for atleast 3 levels(For the spell Warding Bond), then push to 6 paladin(for the damage stealing ability)
Use your heavy armor, get Warcaster, Heavy armor mastery, and defensive Duelist(with a rapier/shortsword, if not nature cleric) if they start focusing on you, and Tough if theyre still hitting your friend. Concentrating on Warding bond means you take half his damage for him, and as a reaction you can take all of it. Which is why you need to be really hard to kill; you're taking the damage for two people basically.
You get plenty of spell slots to dump on people with Divine Smite, you can also use your CD to challenge folks.

After that you can level up however you want, cleric will give you tons of options whereas paladin will be more martial.

That sounds incredibly MAD though needing Wis, Con, and Cha. Also I tend to stay away from multiclassing(with some exceptions) because it seems to require so long to get stuff working in a coherent way where as most single class "builds" start hitting their stride between level 3 and 5.

Edit; It's interesting that you mention liking summoning spells and hard control spells yet you don't like the cleric spell list. They get hold person and some of the best summoning spells in the game...

IIRC they get like 2 summoning spells and don't they rely on the DM entirely to decide what creature they get? At least the Druid gets to narrow it down to a certain CR/number of creatures. Also I think a big part of it is that I tend to have a negative opinion of religion IRL and playing a religion-based character just... I don't like it. I wouldn't even look at the Paladin if they didn't change deities to oaths. I'd play the hell out of a Favored Soul though. Having a parent or grandparent or whoever that got their sex on with a deity is leaps and bounds better than being some deity's yes-man.

 

[Kithas]

That sounds incredibly MAD though needing Wis, Con, and Cha. Also I tend to stay away from multiclassing(with some exceptions) because it seems to require so long to get stuff working in a coherent way where as most single class "builds" start hitting their stride between level 3 and 5.

IIRC they get like 2 summoning spells and don't they rely on the DM entirely to decide what creature they get? At least the Druid gets to narrow it down to a certain CR/number of creatures. Also I think a big part of it is that I tend to have a negative opinion of religion IRL and playing a religion-based character just... I don't like it. I wouldn't even look at the Paladin if they didn't change deities to oaths. I'd play the hell out of a Favored Soul though. Having a parent or grandparent or whoever that got their sex on with a deity is leaps and bounds better than being some deity's yes-man.

Thing is for the most part paladins don't care about their charisma score, you don't need a high cha to do well. So really all you need for this is a good con, decent wis and str. That's easily done even with point-buy.

As far as flavor of clerics that is almost completely up to you and your dm, it can be anything from a yes-man to someone devious enough to trick the gods into giving them their power.

 

[Jessica]

Thing is for the most part paladins don't care about their charisma score, you don't need a high cha to do well. So really all you need for this is a good con, decent wis and str. That's easily done even with point-buy.

As far as flavor of clerics that is almost completely up to you and your dm, it can be anything from a yes-man to someone devious enough to trick the gods into giving them their power.

Doesn't that tank a lot of the spells from their spell list though and hurt their aura at higher levels?

I've been burned really really hard by reflavoring. I was burned so badly by it that I almost quit AL entirely. It's not just between me and my DM. It's between me and every single DM who could conceivably DM a game at the store. All it takes is one jerkass DM and my demigod concept, divine warlock, or whatever is back to being a lame god-botherer.

 

[Kithas]

Doesn't that tank a lot of the spells from their spell list though and hurt their aura at higher levels?

I've been burned really really hard by reflavoring. I was burned so badly by it that I almost quit AL entirely. It's not just between me and my DM. It's between me and every single DM who could conceivably DM a game at the store. All it takes is one jerkass DM and my demigod concept, divine warlock, or whatever is back to being a lame god-botherer.

I'm sorry that's been your experience. It shouldn't be. The rules of the game aren't there to restrict but enable the players rp.

As for the cha, really there are a few spells it hits but they aren't that great anyways, the spells you really want don't care about your cha, the only real thing that won't be as good is the aura for adding your cha+ to all saves :/
Also my suggestion was to only go 6 into paladin, but if you are against multiclassing im not sure how to help completely as that is more of my field. Going paladin only will get you more tankiness and being able to take damage for your friend(if doing oath of crown). Full cleric will let you do some of that and give you many more spells/cantrips, just make sure to pick a domain with heavy armor.

 

[Jessica]

I'm sorry that's been your experience. It shouldn't be. The rules of the game aren't there to restrict but enable the players rp.

As for the cha, really there are a few spells it hits but they aren't that great anyways, the spells you really want don't care about your cha, the only real thing that won't be as good is the aura for adding your cha+ to all saves :/
Also my suggestion was to only go 6 into paladin, but if you are against multiclassing im not sure how to help completely as that is more of my field. Going paladin only will get you more tankiness and being able to take damage for your friend(if doing oath of crown). Full cleric will let you do some of that and give you many more spells/cantrips, just make sure to pick a domain with heavy armor.

I'm not against multiclassing inherently. It's just that so many MC combos either push off major class features for too long, get lagged behind in spell slots, seem like a mish mash of classes for no real rhyme or reason, or are one trick ponies that are done more for theorycrafting purposes. About the only multiclassing I've ever really been sold on this edition are Warlock 2/(insert Cha based class here) X builds, Life Cleric 1/non-Cleric healer X builds, and maybe Monk 1/Moon Druid X or Barbarian 1/Moon Druid X builds. They're relatively small dips with it being clear and concise on exactly what you're getting from it.

 

[Z. H. Darkstar]

I've been burned really really hard by reflavoring. I was burned so badly by it that I almost quit AL entirely. It's not just between me and my DM. It's between me and every single DM who could conceivably DM a game at the store. All it takes is one jerkass DM and my demigod concept, divine warlock, or whatever is back to being a lame god-botherer.

Having the fluff vs mechanics discussion about reflavoring is always a tough one to have. It really boils down to one question: will your reflavor have any mechanical implications? If not, then reskin to your heart's content. If you want to say that your Cleric has an accord more akin to a Warlock's pact, that's fine as long as you're still mechanically a Cleric. When you think about it, Clerics and Warlocks are thematically similar. Both form a bond with an otherworldly being for access to magical powers. Only real difference is that Clerics form their bonds with gods, while Warlocks are more open in their patron selection.

An Arcana Domain Cleric could have made a pact with Mystra to save your people, instead of being a blind follower. Remember that alignment of deity doesn't have to match the PC's alignment. You can be a LE Arcana Cleric who learned the teachings of Mystra to manipulate the Weave for her own avarice of tyrannical power.

My AC started as a Fighter with Magic Initiate (Wizard) for GFB/Ray of Frost/Magic Missile. His hopes were to be a powerful War Mage, unfortunately his Int 10 precluded him from being accepted into a Wizard school. His trinket was the book that held no ink. Once he had enough experience to grow stronger, the book revealed itself to be a copy of "Arcana For Dummies" written by an acolyte of Mystra. He carries his "spellbook" with him, that allows him to channel Mystra's blessings into magical effects both arcane and divine. He is not an evangelist by any stretch of the imagination. He simply reveres Mystra for allowing him a means of fulfilling his dream. While the path of the Black Mage remains out of reach, he has begun to forge his own path as a Red Mage, blending both the arcane and divine arts into a singular discipline to enhance his limited martial prowess.

 

[Kithas]

I'm not against multiclassing inherently. It's just that so many MC combos either push off major class features for too long, get lagged behind in spell slots, seem like a mish mash of classes for no real rhyme or reason, or are one trick ponies that are done more for theorycrafting purposes. About the only multiclassing I've ever really been sold on this edition are Warlock 2/(insert Cha based class here) X builds, Life Cleric 1/non-Cleric healer X builds, and maybe Monk 1/Moon Druid X or Barbarian 1/Moon Druid X builds. They're relatively small dips with it being clear and concise on exactly what you're getting from it.

I agree that in general during early levels (<5) the dip should be 1 level at maximum even by 9 it should only be 2-3 while by 11(what I consider the 1/2 point) you can easily do a 7/4 and not miss too much. After that you have most of your "core" features, go for whatever you want.

I think the issue usually is one of two things; Multiclassing too hard too early, or merely a perceived weakness because the other characters are getting extra attack(for example) and you aren't.

The first really comes down to making the dips small in the early game, fulfilling them more as the game progresses. Yeah it hurts that my ranged character isn't going to get extra attack until level 10, i've learned from that though.

The second is more of a mental thing, you need to remind yourself why you made the decisions you did and have fun with what you've made. That same character, currently a 1fighter/4rogue/2ranger, still outdamages any of the other single class characters and thanks to crossbow expert can easily keep up in # of attacks, I hadn't planned on going 4 in rogue but I found that 30' was a little too close and I needed the range boost from sharpshooter(honestly not that interested in the -5 :/ ). That said though it does kinda hurt when I see the other rogue have 4d6 sneak attacks, and the fighter/monk with extra attack and flurry, but I just need to remember that what I do have is powerful and effective. He is also one of the most fun characters to rp and use I've had, never played a sneak-thief before but it's fun.

Tl;Dr Be careful with your early game dips, but remember that the grass is always greener on the other side and try not to have mcers remorse.