Did you change potions?

[useridunavailable]

No big heals? Clerics get one at 6th level - Cure Serious Wounds heals 2 surges worth of health without spending a single surge. They and Warlords also get up to surge+6d6 healing on their Healing/Inspiring Word, which could end up as a double surge for some characters. Two surges is half your hit points. Considering that nothing does as much damage in 4E as 3E, that's at least as effective as Heal was in 3E.

In my experience, hit points drop to dangerously low levels in the blink of an eye. Although nothing deals as much damage, there are generally more creatures per encounter, and it doesn't take many levels for characters to average fewer total hit points than they would have had in 3e. Personally, I don't consider "half of your hit points" equal to (not to mention better than) "all or almost all of your hit points" in any edition. In tough encounters, healing a single badly injured character to a "safe" hit point total is generally a collaborative effort, even with a leader in the party - again, IME. I've also found that characters will often go from almost no hit points to almost all of their hit points to almost no hit points again within a single round.

I guess it all depends on your definition of "big". Even allowing the exceptions you present, though, potions are among the biggest heals available at the levels at which they become accessible. In addition, they're usable by anyone, and they require far less sacrifice to use than Second Wind (i.e., spending your standard action to heal just so you can lose more than you gained before your next turn). YMMV.

 

[James McMurray]

Potions are plenty useful as written, especially any that give a save.

Maybe it's just the fights we've been in, but the typical "save ends" stuff we see involves being stunned, unconscious/dying, dazed, or dominated. Only one of those would allow a potion (dazed) and it would take you two turns to draw the potion and drink it. In those two turns you'll probably have saved without the potion (almost definitely if a paladin gives you a free save, a cleric gives you a free save, or a Justiciar gives you some rerolls).

 

[ObsidianCrane]

Potions are still good, the Cleric or Warlord can be dropped by the bad guys and then the healing is gone. In a tough encounter that is a bad thing for the party.

 

[James McMurray]

I should also say that we have two parties that have a good amount of healing in them, so between second winds and other PCs, the small amount of hit points you get from the potions is not worth the cost. Both parties have a cleric with the at-will ability to grant a save. One has two paladins with Divine Mettle, and the other has a warlord with powers to grant saves.

If either party didn't have such a strong base for resistance and recovery, potions would look a little more palateable. Not much, but some.

 

[James McMurray]

Potions are still good, the Cleric or Warlord can be dropped by the bad guys and then the healing is gone. In a tough encounter that is a bad thing for the party.

Both parties have several characters capable of getting the other healer(s) back on their feat. The 11th level group has a cleric and 2 paladins, plus people capable of easily making the Heal check to let an unconscious character use their Second Wind. The 2nd level party has a cleric and a warlord, plus people with decent Heal.

With 4e giving you your full bloodied value no matter how far below zero you were when you were healed, that's all we've needed. Most combats go by with hardly anyone needing to use their second wind, even the one where we were surprised and the cleric got dropped in round 1.

 

[ravenight]

you don't get your full bloodied value - you get the full value of the healing. So unless you are getting to spend 2 surges, that is 1/2 your bloodied value.

 

[Norhg]

Did masterwork potion belts make it into 4e somewhere? Or are you suggesting converting a piece of 3.x gear in order to make potions more useful?

No.
Rather, I was voicing the thought that every character would keep such a belt full with Potions in order to quaff them constantly - that's how useful they are now.

 

[Zurai]

you don't get your full bloodied value - you get the full value of the healing. So unless you are getting to spend 2 surges, that is 1/2 your bloodied value.

He's talking about the fact that you have to go to -bloodied in order to die from HP damage, which means you pretty much always get 3 rounds to cast a simple heal on the guy and get him back on his feet.

 

[Jack Colby]

I haven't house ruled potions because they don't suck. They work fine.

 

[Grakarg]

Need more variety

My real issue with potions isn't whether or not healing potions are ok, its that there isn't enough variety of potions in general.

They should be more then cleric in a bottle.