DM can't get the hang of high-level play

[Fenes 2]

I don't use many monsters in my games. I prefer classed NPCs, and not too many spellcasters at that - or not too many spellcasters with save or die spells. Works well imc.

 

[pogre]

The problem, put simply, is that higher level play can turn things on their ear, and sometimes strectch credibility to the breaking point. Higher level play in D&D is neither better nor worse than lower level play, but it is DIFFERENT. Challenges need to move in other directions, particularly if you want to move away from many of the standard insta-death threats.

Very true from my experience.

We ran from 1st level to Epic. My players enjoyed it all, but at the higher levels things tended to warp a bit. My solution this next time around was to change the rules. We are using a lower magic level in the campaign and making spells a little bit painful to cast. One of the benefits of test driving Bad Axe's Grim Tales

If this is not something you can accept, I would suggest you view the high levels as just a different game. One that involves all or nothing.

 

[alsih2o]

when we were surprised by an angry carnivorous plant: surprise round, full attack, chomp chomp chomp.

could it be that things like this happen? not a lot of info on this one to work with, but surprise rounds only give partial actions if i am not mistaken, and IF i read this right you are giving full round actions

 

[hong]

Re: Re: DM can't get the hang of high-level play

could it be that things like this happen? not a lot of info on this one to work with, but surprise rounds only give partial actions if i am not mistaken, and IF i read this right you are giving full round actions

I think what he means is:

- surprise round: plant chomps cleric once

- 1st normal round: plant rolls high, cleric rolls low, plant chomps cleric a few more times

 

[Henry]

My first question is whether or not the Cleric and Wizard are using their magic to its fullest advantage. As someone mentioned, buffing spells from the cleric are very useful, as are certain arcane spells that the wizard could have access to.

Endurance is a great example for your barbarian wizard. A mere 1 or 3 point fortitude save gain could have possibly made a difference in the medusa gaze attack. Ensuring that your cleric does not get dominated by an opponent by using Owl's Wisdom (if available), or by taking advantage of the spell spell immunity to resist spells that mean the end of a party member instantly.

Also, as Wizardru mentioned, never underestimate the importance of scrolls and potions. crafting a few of these life-savers can mean the difference of - well, life and death.

Describing your examples above, it seems that your party has fallen victim to bad luck more than anything. A wiz 10/bar2 would have a fort save of at least +5, maybe +6 or +7 with a good CON. A psychic warrior failing a DC 17 or so fort save is pretty bad luck, indeed.

 

[alsih2o]

Re: Re: Re: DM can't get the hang of high-level play

I think what he means is:

- surprise round: plant chomps cleric once

- 1st normal round: plant rolls high, cleric rolls low, plant chomps cleric a few more times

i wondered, but i have seen more than one group making this mistake (mine included )

 

[Kweezil]

Re: Re: Re: Re: DM can't get the hang of high-level play

i wondered, but i have seen more than one group making this mistake (mine included )

It took us six months of the rogue full attacking with two weapons in surpirse rounds before we figured that one out. D'oh.

 

[Valiantheart]

Sounds like you need a little bit better equipment. Raise the palyers AC by 3-5 pts and get some save boosting items.

 

[Arnwyn]

The main problem is that we're having a serious problem with player mortality as we go up in levels. Weird, right? You'd think that things are more dangerous when you've only got 6 HP and lousy AC. But in higher-CR encounters, you tend to live or die just on the outcome of a single die roll.

Not weird at all, actually. It's a complete fallacy that mortality goes down when going up in levels - higher level characters don't necessarily survive longer, they can just take bigger challenges without dying immediately.

 

[Rackhir]

Something worth keeping in mind is that in a sense higher levels become somewhat of a First Strike Contest. ie. Which ever side goes first will have a much higher probability of surviving.

So make sure the highest Dex character has Improved Initiative (to give you a +4 to initiative rolls). Having at least one character who is going to go first can make a crucial difference in terms of the aformentioned "Suprise round/Bad Init Roll" combination death.

In a similar vien, making sure you are optimized for delivering damage vs defense can give you a crucial edge, since you can make your strikes count that much more (of course this is a somewhat higher risk approach).

A high level rogue properly configured make for an excellent scout if you are willing to take the time/danger. Remember information is power, especially if you can detect/defuse traps/ambushes ahead of time.

Look through the Epic Level Handbook as well. It has a number of suggestions for dealing with the increased lethality of higher level combats.