DM can't get the hang of high-level play

[Kugar]

I would also make sure that the DM is taking the fact that there are only 3 players in the party into account. All of the EL recommendations are for a 4 person party. Think of hiring an NPC to help out or reaping the benifits of the leadershio feat.

- or -

You need a diversion. I suggest a hob...Halfling. Give him or her an everburning torch and tell them it is an artifact of great evil. Impress upon the halfing that destroying it in the most out-of-the-way spot available is vitaly important to stop the hosts of evil. Send it on its way. If everything goes as planned, the most powerful evil creatures will soon hear of this and persue the halfling. Your path is now clear to do what needs to be done in relative safety. Every once in a while the wizard should teleport in and check up on the patsies. If they are dead, find a new set and give them a different magic item - like a ring with Nystul's Magic Aura cast on it.

 

[Nine Hands]

From my high level campaign I have learned that many of the higher level spells don't work to my liking. I'm using Andy Collin's rules for Epic Level campaigns along with Action Dice (from Spycraft). A couple of tweaks to some of the class abilities (undead turning/rebuking/bolstering will get worked this weekend) and I'm rather happy.

I also have to say that my players are avoiding any cheesy loop holes in the system, so I have that going for me

 

[maddman75]

Because no one else has mentioned it - go read Piratecat's story hour! Not only is it incredibly entertaining, but they are a high level group. Great way to see what tactics to use. The defenders of daybreak don't do ANYTHING without asking the gods first. And you don't need to use xp-sucking communes every time. To quote Malachite

"Use the one that's weal-or-woe. Weal-or-woe. No 20 questions, no cryptic riddles. Weal-or-woe."

 

[Piratecat]

Sepulchrave's is super-high-level, too. Not to be missed.

Good advice from Wizardru as well.

My group hasn't had any deaths in some time, actually; they have great teamwork and a lot of clerics. It makes a huge difference - especially that cleric part. Boy, howdy. Always having someone nearby with healing means the difference between life and death.

 

[arbados]

OK, nobody will probably like this advice, however, when I DM encounters I:
#1) Make sure not to throw too many of these instant death effect creatures/characters upon the characters.

#2) If I have wizards/sorcerers/creatures which have instant death attacks confront the party I often hold these attacks back a while to give the battle more excitement and to allow my characters the opportunity to put some buff spells up if they haven't already. Yeah, I know your going to say I am not giving the enemy their just do! I do, but much more so when it actually means something.

#3) I fudge alot of rolls in favor of the players . The enjoyment of the players is paramount.

This occasionally occurs in my game and neither I nor the players enjoy it much so I make sure to use it sparingly and for the big, bad guy at the end.

It really comes down to the DM understanding that he has to base the game around a good chance of survicval for the players. Death 10 days away from the final climactic battle is not much fun, however, death in the final epic struggle adds excitement and fear in the players.

 

[A'koss]

Having run many HL games myself, I also want to stress the importance of divinations and particularly "scouting" magic - wizard eye, scrying, etc.

Also, charm, coerce or dominate dungeon dwellers/guards/whathaveyous early in order to get the lay of the land, enemies to key on, etc. This often works much better than divinations and these lackeys make for great expendable scouts (willing or unwilling).

Some other tips, start leaving spell slots open so that you can memorize specific spells for specific challenges. A few scrolls with esoteric defensive magic (stone to flesh for example) will also be a huge help.

My experience is similar to many others here in that whoever gets first strike becomes increasingly important at higher levels. It's very important that PCs are buffed before the fight begins. Death Ward, Stat Boosters, and others that last a long time should be cast early on. Don't be afraid to summon monsters if you have to if you think you're going into a dangerous area and this is your only means of scouting ahead safely.

At very high levels... I would curb Save or Die magic much like Andy Collins suggested in one of his Epic Level articles. Time Stop and particularly Mordy's Disjunction can be real fun-breakers as well. There are many ways to curb them appropriately as well.

I notice as well that your DM rolls out in the open. Now that's good from a "trust" point-of-view, but with the amount of fudging I've had to do to save the PCs (time and again) I know that's only going to work against you guys in the long run... Game balance really starts to break down at high levels and you're only going face more and more "one roll/one round" deciders unless your DM is willing to change some of the rules to reduce this.


A'koss.

 

[Celtavian]

Re

I don't know what to tell you. There is almost no way to avoid death at the level you are at save for the following:.

1. Change the rules for death effects.

2. Ample use of ressurection magic.

3. Get real lucky on all saves and rolls. (Not going to happen.)

There are ways to lessen your chances of death. Our party lessens the number of deaths by doing the following:

1. Scouting ahead: Knowing what you are going to face allows you to prepare.

2. Buff Spells: Death Ward and Protection from Elements are two of the best preparation spells.

3. Item Creation: We spend alot of time and xp creating items like healing wands, Cloaks of Resistance, and other needed adventuring gear. The rules encourage the creation of adventuring gear and you should make sure to take advantage of them.

4. Good group tactics: We tend to fight well as a group. Our warriors defend our clerics. Arcane casters are usually mobile. Rogues usually always have a flank. We like to draw our opponents into hallways and fight along walls to avoid being flanked ourselves. We just use good general tactics. Very important to surviving.


Other than the above, alot of the time we die to bad or nearly impossible die rolls. When your wizard is targeted by a death spell that requires a Fort save, you are really SOL if you don't have a death ward on.

Though I don't like it, I really feel that D&D was designed with the expectation that players would use ressurection magic. So unless your DM plans to lower the lethality of the game, expect to use ressurection magic quite a bit.

 

[brehobit]

One other wacky thing that can help: take a cleric level and the luck domain. Rerolling that save-or-die roll once a day is easily the single most useful thing to spend a level on once you hit 7th or 8th level. If you have good saves to begin with and only fail the save-or dies 10% of the time, this will bring it down to 1% of the time for the first 10 times a day (on the average).

Plus you get +2 on Fort and Will saves, plus if you take War you get a feat, plus you can use cleric items, plus you have some spells which can very occasionally help. All warrior types should really do this from a Min-Max viewpoint. You lose a point of BAB and slow down your class abilities but it easily pays off. If you are playing in a "Runequest-like" world where most powerful PCs and NPCs are associated with a religion or cult anyways it even makes a lot of sense from a RP perspective.

 

[Rackhir]

Another thought. Your party is too small.

First, it means you don't cover all the bases. You have two HTH combat types and one cleric. No Arcane casters, which are quite a bit of firepower in the typical party, especially at the levels you are reaching. No rogue for scouting/utility. No archers.

Second, it means that each party member who is disabled/killed is a much greater loss. So your ability to sustain losses is too low.

A good cure for this would be to pick up a couple of Cohorts, via the leadership feat. You could effectively double the size of the party doing that if everyone took it and depending on your charismas, the cohorts could be close to your levels. That would not only let you cover some of the missing areas, but perhaps pick up specialists of one sort or another (healer, offensive magic, defensive magic).

Ranged combat (ie. Archers) can be a lifesaver, particularly if you can keep them mobile. They can get full attacks more often melee types and are better able to avoid some of the monster special abilities that require melee hits.

One last suggestion. Use summoned creatures more. They can serve as trap springers and ambush indicators. Though given the relatively short duration of the spells, a couple of wands might be the best approach.

 

[Schmackboy]

ECL and party size

Isn't the ECL on an encounter keyed to a party of four? Taking cohorts is a good idea, but until then your DM should scale back the ECL of the encounters a notch or two to compensate for only three players.

I'd add another vote for ACTION DICE. Our group uses them all the time -- players receive four poker chips at the beginning of each session they can cash in to recieve a die roll bonus to checks, saves, damage, or just about anything. Really saves your bacon on those tough saves and also adds a degree of "heroic" adventuring (y'know, burning an action die is when you hear the soundtrack on the movie heighten and the hero escapes a close call).

Monte Cook recently recommended them in one of his columns (which I couldn't find).