DMs are too easy on their players

[Mallus]

Yep. Because it's Knightmare Chess all the way, baby. And I got that card that flips the board, and will soon have 2 queens to nail you with.

Are you currently high?

(not that there's anything wrong with that...)

 

[Edena_of_Neith]

Are you currently high?

(not that there's anything wrong with that...)

(chuckles)

But of course. Beating up on poor, helpless, defenseless, abused PCs is what I'm all about. I'm the Bad Guy. I'm the DM.

But then ... that's what you'all asked me to be, in your own words, when we decided I would take the job first on the rotating basis.
What do you want me to do, not do my job?
You want me to baby your PCs? Gentle your PCs? Embrace and love your PCs? That's not my job. That's YOUR job ... I do hope you do a good job, since your PCs will need all the pampering you can give them, after *I* am done with them.

 

[Doug McCrae]

Now why can't more DMs be like that?

Cause they wouldn't get any players.

 

[phindar]

Now why can't more DMs be like that?

Man, that takes me back. I do get the feeling that 3e is a little too balanced sometimes. CR and EL are useful tools, but they can also feel like a safety net.

Edit: This reminds me of something my dad used to say, a melodrama is only as good as the villian. In a particular type of game (say, old school bloodbath metagrinder), the GM should be adversarial. Fair, of course, but also kind of mean.

 

[Mallus]

Beating up on poor, helpless, defenseless, abused PCs is what I'm all about.

Fine. But what does that have to do with not balancing the character classes against each other?

That's the one place I like to see a little balance.

 

[Gothmog]

Don't listen to them Edena- I think you're doing a fine job. CR, EL, wealth per level guidelines, cherry picking magic items, balancing character abilities- it all leads to a sense of player entitlement where they think they DESERVE to be catered to and there is a huge safety net. Blah- thats boring play. If there is no challenge, no fight for survival and pushing characters to the utmost of their abilities, its like shooting monsters in a barrel for XP and gold.

I know a lot of people play D&D for empowerment fantasies, but really its gone too far with 3E. Character death is rare, and means almost nothing. In 1st and 2nd edition, death was a problem and to be feared- now its a speedbump on the path to accumulating magic items, prestige classes, and power. Its far more of a blow in 3E to lose your magic items than to die! When that is the case, something is seriously wrong.

Now, on the other hand, the DM taking an adversarial role with the players and trying to make their lives hell just because he can is wrong too. The DM shouldn't be a jerk- he needs to be fair, impartial, and roleplay the world and monsters as they would actually behave. But if characters are arguing loudly, acting stupidly without planning, or trying to rest in an unsafe area- they should get what is coming to them. And if an area of the map says "here there be dragons" and a group of 4th level PCs wanders into that area, then they shouldn't be outraged or shocked when a dragon shows up.

 

[Hjorimir]

While I don't exactly agree with Edena's opening post, I do feel that D&D has become too ...comfortable. I've had to listen to players whine about balance just a bit too much (some have gone as far as suggesting the game assumes time to buff before combats, etc.).

For that, I agree; yawn.

I'd rather be challenged. I'd rather have to think outside the box (but would like to be rewarded for those efforts as well when applicable).

I don't recall who said it first, but I agree: Balance is not putting two characters in a room and each having a 50% win ratio against the other.

You'll never have that perfect balance unless each character has the exact same abilities, items, etc. and each is challenged in exactly the same manner.

 

[Mouseferatu]

I rarely pit my PCs against "appropriate" CR encounters. I much prefer a few tough fights to a larger number of easy ones (though I'll use the occasional easy encounter where appropriate). And I tend only to permit purchase of cheaper/lesser items, with the more powerful ones being found on quests.

But...

PCs absolutely should be balanced with each other. That doesn't mean they should all be equal in all respects, but it certainly means they should all be equally useful, all have equal opportunity to shine, and all be on the same general level in terms of power. Nobody enjoys watching other people accomplish things when they themselves cannot contribute.

And no, my players shouldn't think I'm out to kill them or make their lives hell. They should think I'm out to provide an exciting adventure and/or story, with interesting challenges. If that means making their lives hell, great, but that's a tool, not a goal.

 

[Mallus]

If there is no challenge, no fight for survival and pushing characters to the utmost of their abilities, its like shooting monsters in a barrel for XP and gold.

What happens if there's entertainment? You know, people laughing their heads off and genuinely enjoying themselves. How's that?

 

[bento]

The only thing I can add is to make sure you warn your players before you start that you don't follow CR/EL guidelines.

There's nothing wrong with running from a fight you can't deal with.

BUT when they choose to run, if you shoot them in their backs as they run away, snatch their character sheets and rip them up while laughing in their faces, then you're a bad sport!