Do Demon Lords/Dukes of Hell grant spells to worshippers as gods do?

[TerraDave]

Yes, in 4E I don't think gods actually grant "prayers", though the cleric still has to access "divine power". And of course, some of the main things cleric spells used to do are now done by ritual.

In the original Deities and Demigods, I think it went by spell level. So low level spells came from "faith alone", then from powerfull non-divine beings, then from full gods, with only the greatest gods granting 7th level spells, then the highest. (or at least that is how I remember it). This implies that uber-fiends can grant some, but not all spells.

One other thing to consider for 4E is that powerfull npcs don't have to have a class, they can still have powers based on whatever they happened to be. So through rituals and npc specific powers, your demon cultist can do pretty much whatever you want, even if you decide they aren't "clerics".

 

[Dragonhelm]

In Forgotten realms, you had to worship a god to receive divine spells. Though provisions were later made for druids (who could simply choose to revere nature itself) and clerics of dead gods (requiring you to waste a feat).

Not so sure about other settings.

In Dragonlance, there are two varieties of divine magic. The first is that granted by the gods. Clerics receive that power directly.

The second variety is called mysticism. During the early Age of Mortals, divine magic left with the gods. Mortals discovered an ancient form of divine magic called mysticism, which is ambient divine magic. It's generated by the power of life on the world of Krynn. Now, in 4e terms at first glance, that sounds like primal magic. When you look at what mystics could do, though, many of them cast divine magic just like a cleric would.

Mystics tended to draw power by looking within to their inner divine spark. It was through their belief in an ideal that gave them the power to generate magic.

You can find my take on the mystic in this article: Mystics of 4th Edition.

WotC needs to focus more on divine characters who gain their power from divine sources other than gods, IMO. It's an underrepresented archetype.

 

[pawsplay]

In addition to the above, in 3e it is stated in some places that evil deities sometimes grant clerical spells as a favor to fiendish worshippers.

 

[Lancelot]

If. You. Want. Them. To.

That'd be my answer as well.

In my campaign, it's all about belief. If enough people believe that a thing (god, archfiend, large tree, whatever) is divine and can grant "miracles", then it usually can. Most of the archfiends aren't well known (or have large followings) on my campaign world, but a handful are. The "lucky few" are no more powerful or special than their non-worshipped compatriots, but their followers receive divine magic anyway.

 

[Theo R Cwithin]

If. You. Want. Them. To.

Agreed.

Aside from rulers of the Abyss and/or Hells, other divine sources that might grant spells include:

a sacred mountain shrouded in mist
ultra-high-power mortals
a golden skull
formless voids
the pie
an immense celestial treant
a glowing badger
the color blue
and a partridge in a pear tree

 

[DrunkonDuty]

In my campaigns: yes.

I go along with the same general theory several other folk have mentioned: that worshippers can gain divine magic through their faith regardless of what their faith is in. I don't see much difference between magic types. In fact I've long thought the distinction between divine and arcane magic was an unnecessary complication.

As an aside: NExt DnD game I run I would hark back to the 2e idea of divine magic being limited spells that lie within the domains of the deity. This is to do with nerfing what I see as over-powerful clerics and druids rather than the original topic though.

 

[Krensky]

It's not a rules question, it's a world building question.

If you, as the GM, want the Boogey Man to grant spells, he does. If you want a divine caster to be granted spells by the teapot god in their grandmother's hut, he is. If you want spells to only be granted by the one true god, they are.

 

[LostSoul]

In my campaign, no, not really.

Anyone can do the divine thing, but it takes practice, willpower, and a certain way of looking at the world. Along with a few words of Supernal.

Back in the day the gods realized that they could teach mortal creatures how to use "divine" powers. They couched their teachings in prayers and rituals because it was easier for their subjects to remember over generations - and it had the added benefit of indoctrinating them to a specific world view.

The power doesn't actually come from the gods; it's more like "I think the world should work like this", a few words of Supernal, and the will to make it so.

 

[dead]

In late 3e the Fiendish Codex series had a really cool compromise position that had the non divine 3e archfiends still granting spells as essentially conduits to the inherent power of the Abyss, etc.

Ah, yes, I thought 3E did something like this. Worshippers draw on the divine power of the lower planes through the fiend as if the demon/devil/daemon lord were a kind of magic focus.

 

[dead]

Unless, of course, you go back to the original source- the 1e Fiend Folio and material, wherein she is clearly a demon prince. She's even in the FF under "demon". All this "Lolth is a god, rawr" stuff is stuff the Forgotten Realms foisted on her (although to be honest, the 1e Deities & Demigods book has her in it, but it also plainly states that archdevils and demon princes and their ilk are the equivalent of lesser gods, and it is in this context that she appears in the work).

I know Lolth used to be called the Demon Queen of Spiders. I can believe 1E Deities & Demigods would say the archfiends are equivalent in power to lesser gods because, back in 1E, the power level of gods (in terms of game stats) was on par with the fiends from memory.

I think it was only in 3E (Deities & Demigods and Faiths & Pantheons) that the power level of gods shot right up and left the demon lords behind (see BoVD). The archfiends were kept as ultra powerful monsters that high-level PCs could potentially destroy (as it was in 1E). For the PCs to destroy a god from 3E Deities & Demigods would be unlikely unless it was super-high level play (100th level? . . .)