Do Demon Lords/Dukes of Hell grant spells to worshippers as gods do?

[Thanael]

I forget which book it was, but there was a Shadowrun (3) book that had some of the shadowtalk banter going on about shamanic totems and their relation to either actual pre-existant metaplanar entities or just deriving from the pure will of the shaman themselves, and there was a mention of an orcish shaman of "Toaster".

That would probably be Magic in the Shadows (Awakenings is the 2e precursor). Both mainly by Steven Kenson.

I dimly remember the Shaman of the First Church of Elvis for Shadowrun, who dressed up like Elvis and cast magic in the name of the King. Though it was probably in a netbook.

The SR way of looking at magic traditions is a very interesting one. You essentially cast your magic in the way that you envision it, so there can be Goetic Hermetics, Catholic Idol shamen, or Chaos Mages (hermetics with an anything that works, pick and choose method). Even PSI and miracle workers.

 

[Shemeska]

Is this from on of the Fiendiesh Codex books?

From Expedition to the Demonweb Pits in late 3.5.

 

[dead]

I've always allowed demon lords/archdevils/etc. to grant spells to their clerics and other divine spellcaster minions in games I've run. And that's certainly how it works in Golarion. Because spellcasting demon worshipers make for great bad guys!

How does Golarion distinguish between archfiends and gods? Are their relative power levels the same? Or are gods much more powerful?

Does Golarion have different power levels for gods: demigod/lesser/greater etc?

Would the spells granted by Golarion's archfiends come from them directly or are they a conduit and the power comes from the Lower Planes?

 

[dead]

In Eberron, the source of divine magic is impossible to determine with any real confidence.

Yes, Eberron is unique as a cleric can stray from the tenants of his god but still get access to divine spells. For example, a cleric of a Good god could become corrupt and evil but still get divine spells. I think the cleric still needs to "believe" he is serving the god, however - even though he has twisted the god's doctrine to serve his own needs.

But the Eberron setting says the gods are distant and do not watch their worshippers as closely as in a default D&D world. In Greyhawk, the cleric in the above example would have his spells stripped from him.

This makes me think of the Kingpriest of the Dragonlance setting. Did he become evil at some point? At what point did he stop recieving spells from Paladine before the Cataclysm struck?

 

[dead]

In 3e/3.5e archfiends and celestial paragons COULD grant spells as long as the PC took a feat that represented making a pact with them. A PC could only ever take one of the 6 feats . . .

So in 3E, a cleric could not be a priest of, say, Orcus without taking the Thrall to Demon feat?

 

[dead]

I can't recall which one, but I distinctly remember a 2E Planescape supplement that amended this.

It was discussing worship of Abyssal Lords, and said something to the effect of 1st- and 2nd-level level spells were gained through faith alone. 3rd-level spells had to be imparted by the Lord into a vassal who had to personally deliver them to the worshipper in order for said worshipper to receive them. 4th-level spells could only be received by a worshipper from the Abyssal Lord directly (e.g. had to be in its presence).

This seems highly restrictive to the cleric. Imagine a high priest of Orcus who could only cast up to 4th level spells - and those 4th level spells had to be granted to him in the presence of Orcus himself! 3rd level spells could get to him but a succubus would have to gate in to personally deliver it. Which leaves only 1st and 2nd level spells to freely play with without restriction.

 

[Alzrius]

This seems highly restrictive to the cleric.

It is. I figure that's a major reason why nondivine entities have such small cults to begin with, since their priests have to go through major difficulties just to get half the spells that clerics of actual gods get without effort (remember, the highest-level spells divine spellcasters got in 2E was 7th-level).

 

[Thakkar]

They can if you want them to. Asmodeus could grant them through the Dukes, Lords, etc if you prefer to do it that way. Another way if for another god such as Bane to grant the spells having an agenda all his own. Have fun with it!

 

[coyote6]

I just got this image of the infernal lords outsourcing all their divine spellcaster support needs. Imagine the confusion of the evil high priest of the cult of Demogorgon when his commune questions are answered by a guy with a Bytopian accent.

 

[Tinker Gnome]

This makes me think of the Kingpriest of the Dragonlance setting. Did he become evil at some point? At what point did he stop recieving spells from Paladine before the Cataclysm struck?

He was getting spells from Paladine right until the end. This has caused quite a bit of Wild Mass Guessing(to borrow a term from TV Tropes) about how he was still receiving his spells. His alignment was still Lawful Good right until the end, but he was acting in a way counter to Paladine's interests.