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D&D 4E Do the races in 4e remind you of Dragonlance?

Do the races in 4e remind you of Dragonlance?

  • Yes, there's some resemblance there.

    Votes: 47 32.4%
  • No, not really.

    Votes: 82 56.6%
  • No opinion.

    Votes: 16 11.0%

Dragonhelm

Knight of Solamnia
MerricB said:
Dragonlance adds Draconians. 4e has Dragonborn.

Dragonlance also has dragonspawn.


Of course, DL has Minotaurs.

In the end, that's all that really matters. ;)


Irda Ranger said:
Also, I think it would be intriguing to present Dragonborn exactly as written in the 4E PHB and say "Oh, well, when Draconians figure out how to breed, Dragonborn is what you get. All that turning to stone and different color-types is first-generation only." You can have both Draconians and Dragonborn co-existing, but only the Draconians are innately evil, and only the Dragonborn are available as PC's. Perhaps some Dragonborn have been converted to the worship of Good and Neutral gods by prisoners taken during the Wars, or by missionaries.

Draconians have already found the means to reproduce, so that kind of rules out that theory (though it's an interesting one). Also, don't forget that Dragonlance has the noble draconians as well.

Whether that rules out dragonborn in Dragonlance, I don't know. I suspect that they'd only be playable after the War of the Lance, and no later than the Chaos War. Or rather, that's when they could be created. They could live on past the Chaos War.


I would also present Halflings exactly as written in the 4E PHB, just changing the name. Kender, as written in the DL books, were unplayble. Well, you could play them, but it wasn't easy on everyone else. I would not encourage anyone to choose a character that was designed to be disruptive.

I wouldn't just rename the halfling. Looking at 3e, they have some things in common, but a bonus against fear does not equal total fearlessness. There's also taunting to consider.

Also, I disagree with the assessment that kender are disruptive. Kender aren't disruptive; players are. Of course, this is a losing battle...


For the same reason, I see no reason to make Tinker Gnomes a PC race. They exist, you can go to Mt. Nevermind if you insist, but otherwise, we can just as easily pretend they're not there.

I disagree with this assessment. Tinker Gnomes have been a playable race since Dragonlance began. What happens when you have a player who wants to play a tinker gnome and he can't?


Lastly, and bear me out, I'm wondering if the Tieflings (with proper re-theming and new coat of paint) will make good Irda? We'll have to see on that one; just no way to know at this time.

I'm going to say no. Not unless tieflings can shapeshift.


The last thing I can think of right now, and this will be a real stickey wicket among the fan base, I bet, will be how to handle alignment. I think the 4E changes to alignment (from what we've seen) are a Good Thing(TM). I don't want to re-introduce the full nine-point spectrum, and get in arguments over what "True Neutral" means. Moreover, I think it would be a fascinating exercise to try to reimagine the various races and Gods as only Good, Evil, Lawful, Chaotic or Unaligned, and not any combination of those.


A huge theme of Dragonlance is the Balance of Good, Evil, and Neutrality. It is hard-wired into the setting. Perhaps this can become just a flavor piece or perhaps DL will need its own alignment rules. I don't know.


For instance, I think Minotaurs should be either unaligned or Lawful, and rarely Evil.

Lawful, yes. Rarely evil? Gotta disagree there too. Minotaurs as a whole worship Sargas (aka Sargonnas), the evil god of wrath. While the Kazelati minotaurs worship Kiri-Jolith, they're a minority. The minotaur nation, as a whole, is LE in alignment.
 
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MerricB

Eternal Optimist
Supporter
Irda Ranger said:
A tricky thing (I think), based on what we know, will be the Wizards of High Sorcery.

I've hated the implementation of the Wizards of High Sorcery since they were first described in the last days of 1e.

The original modules & novels have no separate "Wizards of High Sorcery". They have magic-users. Raistlin can cast sleep... something that he wouldn't be able to do using Dragonlance Adventures.

Unfortunately, that form of "specialist magic" was picked up by the designers from then on. I'm extremely glad the 4e designers don't have that kind of stupidity: if they see something that doesn't work, they're happy to discard it.

Cheers!
 

Dragonhelm

Knight of Solamnia
MerricB said:
The original modules & novels have no separate "Wizards of High Sorcery". They have magic-users.

Uh....yeah. Dragonlance Adventures at least had the Wizards of High Sorcery, and Chronicles and Legends pretty much have the orders in full swing.

Unfortunately, that form of "specialist magic" was picked up by the designers from then on. I'm extremely glad the 4e designers don't have that kind of stupidity: if they see something that doesn't work, they're happy to discard it.

The 3e designers made it optional to specialize. The Wizards of High Sorcery are both generalists and specialists. See Towers of High Sorcery for details.
 

MerricB

Eternal Optimist
Supporter
Dragonhelm said:
Uh....yeah. Dragonlance Adventures at least had the Wizards of High Sorcery, and Chronicles and Legends pretty much have the orders in full swing.

DLA is a late addition. There is no sign of specialist Wizards in the original modules or novels.

Yes, you have Red Robes, White Robes and Black Robes. What is the difference between them? Alignment. There's no hint of any other difference in the Chronicles or Legends.

Red-Robes, according to DLA, cannot cast sleep.

The 3e designers made it optional to specialize. The Wizards of High Sorcery are both generalists and specialists. See Towers of High Sorcery for details.

I'm glad to hear it - although the version of the Wizards of High Sorcery prestige class I saw was horrible, horrible if you were a white-robe. Extra-special divination spells? My beating heart!

(The 3e Dragonlance book has some of the worst mechanics for classes I've seen in an official 3e book. I understand that many got fixed in later supplements, but it was not a case of leading with your best foot forward!)

Cheers!
 

Lanefan

Victoria Rules
Didn't WotC just recently reel in the license for DL as well? I smell a pattern...

If they're doing a setting a year for 4e, I'd look for DL as the 2009 setting (with whatever their generic setting is going to be filling the 2008 slot)...they'll fill the holes at that point e.g. minotaurs.

Lanefan
 

DarkWhite

First Post
Lanefan said:
If they're doing a setting a year for 4e, I'd look for DL as the 2009 setting (with whatever their generic setting is going to be filling the 2008 slot)...they'll fill the holes at that point e.g. minotaurs.
2008 = Forgotten Realms
2009 = Eberron
therefore WotC won't be updating Dragonlance as a feature campaign until 2010 at the earliest.
 

Dragonhelm

Knight of Solamnia
MerricB said:
DLA is a late addition. There is no sign of specialist Wizards in the original modules or novels.

Yes, you have Red Robes, White Robes and Black Robes. What is the difference between them? Alignment. There's no hint of any other difference in the Chronicles or Legends.

Red-Robes, according to DLA, cannot cast sleep.

Okay, I misunderstood what you were saying.


I'm glad to hear it - although the version of the Wizards of High Sorcery prestige class I saw was horrible, horrible if you were a white-robe. Extra-special divination spells? My beating heart!

(The 3e Dragonlance book has some of the worst mechanics for classes I've seen in an official 3e book. I understand that many got fixed in later supplements, but it was not a case of leading with your best foot forward!)

Cheers!

Unfortunately, WotC kind of forced a few things on us with the DLCS. For example, the Rose Knight casting divine spells was a mechanical thing. Traditionally, Rose Knights don't cast spells; that's the purview of the Sword Knights.

But yeah, the DLCS could have been better on a lot of fronts. I'm still disappointed that the art wasn't as good as the FRCS. Oh, well. Once Sov. Press/MWP started pumping out the books, they just got better and better on a lot of fronts. The writing and art improved dramatically.
 

AllisterH

First Post
As weird as it sounds, it seems closer to Conan.

Dragonborn, Tieflings to me seem tailormade for Conan (seriously, how many lizardfolk does Conan regularly encounter and half-demon men? He must have committed at least a 10000 murders by the time he was king :) )

Throw in the points of Light setting and the fact that the power of magic is being dialed back and the introduction of rituals and I'm getting a serious Conan vibe.
 


VirgilCaine

First Post
MerricB said:
...and the Halfling takes the good bits of the Kender...

I'm sorry, are those the liver or the gizzard?

(seriously, how many lizardfolk does Conan regularly encounter and half-demon men? He must have committed at least a 10000 murders by the time he was king )

Um, I've only read a few (The Phoenix on the Sword, The Scarlet Citadel, The Tower of the Elephant, Black Colossus, The Slithering Shadow/Xuthal of the Dusk) of the original stories (thanks wikisource), and the two movies, but none of them featured half-demon men or lizardmen AFAIR.
 

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