Do you let your clerics have all the spells?

[Bardsandsages]

So a Monk of the Yellow Rose or one of the Broken Order (both, if I recall correctly, Ilmataran orders), aren't allowed to fight, either?

No clerics in your campaign aren't supposed to enter the fray, unless they're dragging the wounded out to be healed?

If someone would be that extreme to me, I'd run laughing into that Terrasque.

I can understand when you don't approve of a Martyred Champion casting Ebbi's Spiked Tentacles of Forced Intrusion, but fighting for the people means getting hurt. Experiencing pain. It also means that the innocent will not have to fight, and consiquently not getting hurt. There's many ways to be a martyr, to suffer for people, and fighting for them is one of them.

You just don't make others suffer needlessly. You aim for incapacitation, or for killing quickly and rather painlessly. That means no Dread Mothers, Elder Ones, Nyarlies, Spiked Tentacles, Symbols of Pain, Using their teeth to play piano, painting elaborate patterns on their skin with a scalpel, or showing them music videos from Tokyo Hotel.

Sorry, I guess I wasn't clear. He wanted access to a spell that would turn him into a crazed killing machine with natural armor and an assortment of special abilities. His arguement was that he wanted to be able to do massive damage. Of course clerics can fight (why else can they use marital weapons and wear armor), but a follower of a benevolent diety shouldn't expect his god to grant a spell that allows you to rip, tear, shread, and mutilate your opponents.

 

[Henry]

So far, we've been allowing them Carte Blanche. However, it really isn't fair to the Wizards in my opinion, so I've been thinking of implementing Piratecat's/Sagiro's/Olaf's house rule.

For one thing, Clerics don't NEED to be Omni-Flexible, IMO. That's giving them more power than they were originally designed to have.
For another, people turn out "it's Official" like it's some kind of Papal Infallibility clause - like WotC never makes mistakes with balancing spells. Everybody, WotC included, makes bad calls with spells, feats, etc. and the more stuff released, the more overpowered-for-its-level stuff there is to choose from. Mostly, it's not bad, but there's enough slipping through that all min-maxed clerics will likely have almost identical spell lists - their own version of Magic the Gathering's "Power Nine."

 

[Kae'Yoss]

Sorry, I guess I wasn't clear. He wanted access to a spell that would turn him into a crazed killing machine with natural armor and an assortment of special abilities. His arguement was that he wanted to be able to do massive damage. Of course clerics can fight (why else can they use marital weapons and wear armor), but a follower of a benevolent diety shouldn't expect his god to grant a spell that allows you to rip, tear, shread, and mutilate your opponents.

Ah, we agree then. It just sounded like you don't want them to fight, with that "want to fight? play fighter" comment.

 

[Sir Brennen]

Sorry, I guess I wasn't clear. He wanted access to a spell that would turn him into a crazed killing machine with natural armor and an assortment of special abilities. His arguement was that he wanted to be able to do massive damage. Of course clerics can fight (why else can they use marital weapons and wear armor), but a follower of a benevolent diety shouldn't expect his god to grant a spell that allows you to rip, tear, shread, and mutilate your opponents.

Yeah, I have a similar restriction - non-core spells have to be related to your god's domains/portfolio/area of interest. Not all deities hand out all the exact same spells.

 

[Shemeska]

I'll give PC clerics access to all of the standard PHB cleric spells and domain spells. Anything beyond that is subject to my approval, and it has to fit the theology of their deity. So no cleric of Auril or Cryonax throwing around massive amount of flame, etc.

Your spell choice as a cleric is very wide, you have a lot to choose from, but your choices of spells you use need to be constrained by the deity you follow and pragmatic needs for the current adventure. Play within the lines and you'll be fine.

RP restrictions kept in mind by the player make my job as a DM much easier. Plus I don't have any Crunchy McMunchkins in my group.

 

[rgard]

I have a player (who always plays wizards) playing a cleric in my new campaign. He insists he's not min/maxing but most of his choices appear to be made solely for their tactical value ("cleric is just the best class", "I want to play a 'little person' who rides a dog and wileds a lance, but I'm not a halfling")

Just before my last session he hands me a stack of print outs. "I found a bunch of spells online for my cleric. They're all from WotC books so they're official." I tell him I'll need to look at them, and hey, it'd be nice if in the future you give me more of a heads up than 5 minutes before we play. "Ok. But they are official," he replies, honestly confused. In an email the next day ("have you looked at the spells yet?") he mentions that he's not trying to min/max, he just wants to add some variety, so he's not casting the same spells as the party beguiler, bard or druid.

So I take a look at the spells . What is the deal with all of the cleric damage spells? "Nimbus of Light"? "Deific Vengeance"? Maybe I'm an old curmudgeon, but shouldn't clerics be pretty limited to healing and buffing?

Sorry about the ranting, but how do you deal with new cleric spells? I find wizard spells easy to introduce. If i want a spell to be in, I throw a scroll into the next treasure hoard, or I let the player pick a couple when they level up. But clerics get access to everything. Isn't introducing tons of new spells a problem?

A couple of points:

1. I wouldn't let any character cast a spell with just the summary information. Too much potential for abuse or screw ups if you don't have the entire spell description.
2. Sounds like he wants to play a wizard (blasting spells) while wearing full plate. Go ahead and let him...the other players will help him to see the light when he has used up all his spells blasting things and can't heal the party. That's about the time the NPC cleric who was lurking launches his/her barrage of blasting spells.

Thanks,
Rich

 

[Hjorimir]

I use the P-Kitty/Sagiro method. It works great!

 

[Oryan77]

I actually don't mind allowing the cleric to have access to spells from all of the other WotC books. It really allows him to shine as a utility man.

Most of the spells are crap anyway and slight variations of pre-existing spells. So it's not like the cleric is going to be much different than he would be anyway. He certainly doesn't use a wide selection of spells from the PHB. Most players usually stick to the same few pool of spells when they choose their daily spells. So most of the PHB spells are wasted anyway.

As a DM, I'm cheering for the PC's. I think it's exciting when the party is in a tight situation and the cleric pulls this spell out of his butt that no one has heard of and he saves the day.

The only problem I have with it is that our cleric is a powergamer that always has his nose in the darn books throughout the game. He still knows what's going on in the game but it definately keeps him from being active in the roleplaying portions.

 

[cmanos]

There is a feat, I forget the name, that allows you to take a new spell that you didn't know before. I believe it was intended for wizards, sorcerers and bards, but I would consider it useable for non-core spells as well.

This was an issue back in !st Ed with the Unearthed Arcana came out. Whole slew of new spells. My initial reaction was to limit them, and only allow use of them after they cane to light, through finding a scroll or spellbook, or through research. After a while, that got tedious and, when time rolled around for me to DM a new bunch of characters, I allowed all the spells from UA.

Right now we are in the middle of a campaign. The Spell Companion and the PHB2 has come out. Our DM is allowing those spells, but only if players find/research/buy them. When I start my next game, I will allow them all.

 

[Kwitchit]

In my present campaign I have individual spell list for each God. I used the PHB and Spell compendium only.

The spell list are not common knowledge and It really allowed me to custom fit and make the dieties portfolio and domains really stand out.

I give a Player thier spell list when the play a cleric and only theat God's spell list.

I liked being able to draw off every spell list to make them work. Higher level stuff was the hardest since I tended to stear away from alignment driven spells except for a few Gods who strove to represent that alignment.

It has made thinsg interesting especially when a caster in armor is throwing Fireballs at you it may take a minute to relaize he worships the god of the sun and fire. Admitted that clerics spell list does not have every fire spell just the most common so I don't step on the toes of other classes.

So far it was worked out fine.

later

That would be a great resource for people to have (assuming the gods aren't all ridiculously homebrewed). If it's on computer, could you post it?