D&D (2024) Do you plan to adopt D&D5.5One2024Redux?

[Faolyn]

Which is why background features like this are problematic if you don't want to change the setting or bend plausibility to accommodate them. I'd rather not bother with them mechanically at all if that's the case.

Except that you mostly don't have to bend plausibility. Especially if you actually read the background feature.

In case you've forgotten, this tangent was, way back when, about the Folk Hero, and how their feature shouldn't work because nobody would recognize them. Except that the background feature has nothing to do with being a folk hero. You were a hero in your home village, that gave you a taste for heroics, you became an adventurer. The end. Backgrounds are literally what you did before you became an adventurer. The feature is actually about being a commoner, and part of Oofta's complaint, IIRC, is that that same feature isn't written into the commoner statblock, therefore it's illogical to let PCs have it. That makes about as much sense as saying a PC with the noble background should automatically be able to parry every turn because that is written into the noble statblock.

I'm putting my priority on building a living, breathing world that people enjoy playing in. One that's logically consistent and if I think a background feature isn't appropriate I'll tell you why. It has everything to do with making the game as fun for my players as I know how.

Except you're not willing to put in a few seconds of thought to think about how something is logically consistent, and coming up with a reason isn't "magic" or "ignoring logic," it's literally putting in less than a minute of thought to realize a way that it is logical--that, and recognizing that your snap decision wasn't necessarily correct.

If my style doesn't work for you, if you insist on always follow the letter of the rules, then I don't know what to say. Find a different DM.

And again, I'm not following the letter of the rules; I'm following the spirit. A commoner PC, if there's one in my game, manages to get along well enough with other commoners so that they're willing to help them out.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Except that you mostly don't have to bend plausibility. Especially if you actually read the background feature.

In case you've forgotten, this tangent was, way back when, about the Folk Hero, and how their feature shouldn't work because nobody would recognize them. Except that the background feature has nothing to do with being a folk hero. You were a hero in your home village, that gave you a taste for heroics, you became an adventurer. The end. Backgrounds are literally what you did before you became an adventurer. The feature is actually about being a commoner, and part of Oofta's complaint, IIRC, is that that same feature isn't written into the commoner statblock, therefore it's illogical to let PCs have it. That makes about as much sense as saying a PC with the noble background should automatically be able to parry every turn because that is written into the noble statblock.


Except you're not willing to put in a few seconds of thought to think about how something is logically consistent, and coming up with a reason isn't "magic" or "ignoring logic," it's literally putting in less than a minute of thought to realize a way that it is logical--that, and recognizing that your snap decision wasn't necessarily correct.


And again, I'm not following the letter of the rules; I'm following the spirit. A commoner PC, if there's one in my game, manages to get along well enough with other commoners so that they're willing to help them out.

So you're saying the feature is misnamed? To be fair, that's not not a problem.

 

[Oofta]

Except that you mostly don't have to bend plausibility. Especially if you actually read the background feature.

In case you've forgotten, this tangent was, way back when, about the Folk Hero, and how their feature shouldn't work because nobody would recognize them. Except that the background feature has nothing to do with being a folk hero. You were a hero in your home village, that gave you a taste for heroics, you became an adventurer. The end. Backgrounds are literally what you did before you became an adventurer. The feature is actually about being a commoner, and part of Oofta's complaint, IIRC, is that that same feature isn't written into the commoner statblock, therefore it's illogical to let PCs have it. That makes about as much sense as saying a PC with the noble background should automatically be able to parry every turn because that is written into the noble statblock.


Except you're not willing to put in a few seconds of thought to think about how something is logically consistent, and coming up with a reason isn't "magic" or "ignoring logic," it's literally putting in less than a minute of thought to realize a way that it is logical--that, and recognizing that your snap decision wasn't necessarily correct.


And again, I'm not following the letter of the rules; I'm following the spirit. A commoner PC, if there's one in my game, manages to get along well enough with other commoners so that they're willing to help them out.

I've given my answer. I do what I do because it's the best way I know how to make a game fun for everyone at the table.

I just learned a new term today, which is becoming appropriate.

 

[mamba]

I'm putting a high priority on players enjoying their characters, and arbitrarily shutting down their actual abilities isn't fun, especially when it literally takes less than a minute to come up with an extremely logical reason why it would work just fine.

we disagree on how logical that reason is...

 

[Faolyn]

we disagree on how logical that reason is...

Since there's potentially many reasons, I find it hard to believe you'd find them all illogical unless you were going out of your way to.

So you're saying the feature is misnamed? To be fair, that's not not a problem.

The feature is called "Rustic Hospitality," which is accurately named.

"Since you come from the ranks of the common folk, you fit in among them with ease. You can find a place to hide, rest, or recuperate among other commoners, unless you have shown yourself to be a danger to them. They will shield you from the law or anyone else searching for you, though they will not risk their lives for you."

See? Nothing there that says they recognize you as being a hero.

Now, if they had been talking about the Level Up version, they'd have a point, because that version specifically says that people recognize you as a hero.

I've given my answer. I do what I do because it's the best way I know how to make a game fun for everyone at the table.

I just learned a new term today, which is becoming appropriate.
View attachment 353657

Mmm, ad hominems...

 

[mamba]

Since there's potentially many reasons, I find it hard to believe you'd find them all illogical unless you were going out of your way to.

depends on the scenario I guess, but the Criminal on a different plane (or even in a far-away land) to me should not be expecting to have contacts in their current location, regardless of what the feature says.

The Folk Hero on the other hand could get lucky

 

[Henadic Theologian]

Please add maybe

 

[Oofta]

depends on the scenario I guess, but the Criminal on a different plane (or even in a far-away land) to me should not be expecting to have contacts in their current location, regardless of what the feature says.

The Folk Hero on the other hand could get lucky

Backgrounds may be useful in many situations, but how they are useful will always make sense in context of the game without jumping through hoops. Sometimes that means the exact text doesn't apply.

 

[Swarmkeeper]

Since there's potentially many reasons, I find it hard to believe you'd find them all illogical unless you were going out of your way to.


The feature is called "Rustic Hospitality," which is accurately named.

"Since you come from the ranks of the common folk, you fit in among them with ease. You can find a place to hide, rest, or recuperate among other commoners, unless you have shown yourself to be a danger to them. They will shield you from the law or anyone else searching for you, though they will not risk their lives for you."

See? Nothing there that says they recognize you as being a hero.

Now, if they had been talking about the Level Up version, they'd have a point, because that version specifically says that people recognize you as a hero.


Mmm, ad hominems...

I’m with you.

It continues to baffle me that, in a game which is so much about imagination and creativity, such objections are sometimes floated against a DM exercising imagination and creativity for the benefit of the players.

 

[Faolyn]

depends on the scenario I guess, but the Criminal on a different plane (or even in a far-away land) to me should not be expecting to have contacts in their current location, regardless of what the feature says.

The Folk Hero on the other hand could get lucky

No, they wouldn't have contacts, but they could easily make contacts. Other criminal types would recognize them as one of their own (one of those things where they could just tell by his eyes and his walk that he spent time in prison) and be willing to give them the benefit of the doubt, more than those same criminals would be willing to give someone, even rogues, who didn't have that background (example: my swashbuckler is a rogue, but she's only as much of a criminal as any adventurer is). And the PC with the criminal background would be better able to recognize that certain places are likely to be fronts for criminal establishments, that the way that person knocked on the door was likely a signal and not just a random pattern, and indeed, that that person's eyes and the way they walk suggest they were in prison, and so on, thus giving them an edge in finding these criminals in the first place.

Likewise, the Folk Hero would have to RP some contact with the commoners first and establish a rapport, and then those commoners would be willing to help them out. It's never going to be a "you seem trustworthy, total stranger I met two minutes ago, come on in" type of thing.

It would require roleplay on the part of the player, of course, in order to make those contacts and establish that rapport. But it shouldn't be just a blanket no from the GM just because.