D&D (2024) Do you plan to adopt D&D5.5One2024Redux?

[UngeheuerLich]

While I don't personally care for the "always say yes" style, there's nothing wrong with it. The only thing that bugs me is just be up front about it. Don't say "A DM can always..." because, yep, I know I could. I don't because we have different priorities. As DMs we all make decisions about what works best for us and our group.

I also think, rules that often need workarounds to make it work in a given campaign don't help the game at all.

I have made use of my background features once in a blue moon. If they had not been there, I don't think we had gotten stuck in the campaign. Often, the sailor would have gotten free passage without that feature anyway. The ranger would find water even without being an outlander.

Actually I see it as feats in 3e or thief skills in older editions. Now things anyone could do are codified for just a few characters. So instead of offering something extra, you take something away frok everyone else...

 

[mamba]

But you are discounting my other examples. Magic doesn't work the same in all planes. For example, spells that affect terrain might not be viable in Limbo. Spells that charm might not be effective in Elysium. Time Stop might work differently in the Feywild.

I am not discounting them, I had nothing to add

Of course a fireball on the elemental plane of water will have some issues, the same issues it has when you cast it in the FR while submerged in a pond…

All the examples you gave are due to the planes being drastically different from e.g. FR, and it affects everyone equally, like being able to jump farther on the Moon because of its lower gravity.

In contrast, background features do not work the same everywhere, not even on the same world, for completely different reasons

 

[Faolyn]

I just don't understand this thinking. A lot of the stuff in the PHB only works at the "realm" level. Does fireball work the same in the Elemental Plane of Water? Magic appears to work quite differently between Eberron and the Forgotten Realms. I mean, it is indicated all throughout the Eberron book. And since everyone keep bringing up Barovia, isn't there a section in there that literally talks about how spells work and look differently, say turn undead or raise dead? (I don't have the book on me, and it has been a while since I've read it.)

In 5e, the spells are flavored differently (and evilly). In prior editions, some spells either didn't work (you couldn't detect evil or good creatures, for instance), worked differently (like, if you summoned a creature it stayed when the spell ended and you couldn't cast any magic across closed domain borders), or caused you to make immediate Dark Powers checks.

 

[Scott Christian]

I am not discounting them, I had nothing to add

Of course a fireball on the elemental plane of water will have some issues, the same issues it has when you cast it in the FR while submerged in a pond…

All the examples you gave are due to the planes being drastically different from e.g. FR, and it affects everyone equally, like being able to jump farther on the Moon because of its lower gravity.

In contrast, background features do not work the same everywhere, not even on the same world, for completely different reasons

Correct. And that was my point to your original comment - they only work on a "realm" level. There are many things that work differently via plane. So why are we nitpicking a background feature that only works in a given area. To me, it houses the same premise.

 

[Mirrorrorrim]

I just don't understand this thinking. A lot of the stuff in the PHB only works at the "realm" level. Does fireball work the same in the Elemental Plane of Water? Magic appears to work quite differently between Eberron and the Forgotten Realms. I mean, it is indicated all throughout the Eberron book. And since everyone keep bringing up Barovia, isn't there a section in there that literally talks about how spells work and look differently, say turn undead or raise dead? (I don't have the book on me, and it has been a while since I've read it.)

But I wasn't talking about the "physics" of magic working differently, I was talking about the narrative of perspective of people within the world, if not the greater universe as a whole. Backgrounds are narrative tools. But they are small and personal in scope and don't make sense to apply to the entire universe. You may be a Folk Hero to the people of Conyberry because you singlehandedly outwitted the evil villain trying to buy the town (remember, this was a low-level issue that made you a folk hero, because this all happened at, or before, level 1), but that means nothing to the people of Calimshan, who may not have even heard of Mordenkainen because he is an epic hero of another world.

When I say "realm", I mean city/state/nation/kingdom. In the Forgotten Realms, people in Baldur's Gate hear rumors about what happens in their region. They don't know what is going on in Thay. In Eberron, people in Thrane don't know the perspective of people in Droaam.

It isn't a world where everyone knows everything. Most people are ignorant of things that don't affect them, and if they think they "know" anything, they don't. They've only heard rumors or propaganda. Even on Earth, we are learning that we know next to nothing about the real world, because we've been fed lies. We all have lived under propaganda for millennia. It's not just religion or curated national/cultural perspectives. Even our understanding of the laws of physics are changing.

In D&D, the gamers have the luxury of deciding what is true about the world, and they can take the suggestions of designers, or tweak it to their preferences. If Fireball works in the Elemental Plane of Water, it's because we decide that it does because "magic." But that has nothing to do with my concerns about Background Features.

 

[Scott Christian]

But I wasn't talking about the "physics" of magic working differently, I was talking about the narrative of perspective of people within the world, if not the greater universe as a whole. Backgrounds are narrative tools. But they are small and personal in scope and don't make sense to apply to the entire universe. You may be a Folk Hero to the people of Conyberry because you singlehandedly outwitted the evil villain trying to buy the town (remember, this was a low-level issue that made you a folk hero, because this all happened at, or before, level 1), but that means nothing to the people of Calimshan, who may not have even heard of Mordenkainen because he is an epic hero of another world.

When I say "realm", I mean city/state/nation/kingdom. In the Forgotten Realms, people in Baldur's Gate hear rumors about what happens in their region. They don't know what is going on in Thay. In Eberron, people in Thrane don't know the perspective of people in Droaam.

It isn't a world where everyone knows everything. Most people are ignorant of things that don't affect them, and if they think they "know" anything, they don't. They've only heard rumors or propaganda. Even on Earth, we are learning that we know next to nothing about the real world, because we've been fed lies. We all have lived under propaganda for millennia. It's not just religion or curated national/cultural perspectives. Even our understanding of the laws of physics are changing.

In D&D, the gamers have the luxury of deciding what is true about the world, and they can take the suggestions of designers, or tweak it to their preferences. If Fireball works in the Elemental Plane of Water, it's because we decide that it does because "magic." But that has nothing to do with my concerns about Background Features.

Backgrounds are narrative tools - with mechanics attached. And I understand your definition of realm, but it doesn't change the premise. Some spells or abilities don't work or make sense in "place x" is the same premise as some background features don't work or make sense in "place x." Same premise.
Now your narrative argument, that makes much more sense to me. I guess it just depends on what you define as a narrative tool, because technically, spells, abilities, etc. could all be narrative.

 

[AstroCat]

Nope, not gonna be happening. I'm sure I'll have access on DDB but we hover around 2014 5e and a bit beyond when we play 5e.

 

[tetrasodium]

I just don't understand this thinking. A lot of the stuff in the PHB only works at the "realm" level. Does fireball work the same in the Elemental Plane of Water? Magic appears to work quite differently between Eberron and the Forgotten Realms. I mean, it is indicated all throughout the Eberron book. And since everyone keep bringing up Barovia, isn't there a section in there that literally talks about how spells work and look differently, say turn undead or raise dead? (I don't have the book on me, and it has been a while since I've read it.)

It talks about fluff elements almost exclusively.

Spoiler: VRGTR62

Corrupted Magic. The Dark Powers influence
magical effects, imparting them with sinister qual
ities. How these changes manifest are for you to
decide and can shift from domain to domain. Do
summoned creatures appear undead in one domain
or violently mutated in another? Do divination spells
rasp in the voices of otherworldly ancients? Do the
effects of drinking a potion of

healing feel like grubs
weaving wounds shut from within? Magic looks
menacing in the Domains of Dread, but descriptive
embellishments shouldn't change the actual effects
of spells or magic items.

If you want a mechanically functional version of that section was in the 3.0(?) ravenloft book. The equivalent in 5e ranges from vague & unhelpful to completely useless.. For example:

Spoiler: VRGTR63

tions, not existential bookkeeping.
PLANAR CONNECTIONS
Each domain is its own demiplane, isolated from
all other planes including the Material Plane. No
spell-not even wish-allows escape from the
Domains of Dread. Spells such astral projection,
plane shift, teleport, and similar magic cast for the
purpose of escaping a domain simply fail, as do ef
fects that banish a creature to another plane. These
restrictions apply to all other effects, including
magic items and artifacts that transport or banish
creatures to other planes. Magic that allows transit
to the Border Ethereal, such as the etherealness
spell and the Etherealness feature of ghosts, is the
exception to this rule. A creature that enters the
Border Ethereal from a domain is pulled back into
the domain it left upon leaving the Ethereal.
For the purpose of spells whose effects change
across or are blocked by planar boundaries (such
as sending), each domain is considered its own
plane. Magic that summons creatures or objects
from other planes functions normally, as does magic
that involves an extradimensional space. Spells
cast within an extradimensional space (such as that
created by Mordenkainen's magnificent mansion)
are subject to the same restrictions as magic cast
within a domain.
While in the Domains of Dread, characters who
receive spells from deities or otherworldly patrons
continue to do so. In addition, spells that allow
contact with beings from other planes function
normally, with one proviso: the domain's Dark
lord senses when someone in their domain casts
such a spell and can choose to make themself the
spell's target, so that they become the one who is
contacted.

Somewhere in vrgtr/CoS there is a line along the lines of "some spells might function differently" or "use monsters immune to xxx" but I can't find it with a quick search. in order for spells to work differently for a setting you need to have that setting's book provide the replacement set of spells or be very specific in the mechanical changes in a way that the GM can point the players at with the expectation of the errata/patch equivalent mechanics will be used when players cast spells without needing the GM to one off revise each spell

Ok. I guess. But the settings don't make that very clear since Eberron is filled with magic and FR is not. But you are discounting my other examples. Magic doesn't work the same in all planes. For example, spells that affect terrain might not be viable in Limbo. Spells that charm might not be effective in Elysium. Time Stop might work differently in the Feywild. Protection from Good/Evil might be twisted in the Nine Planes of Hell. And on and on.
Those are off the top of my head. There are probably tons of examples out there, especially when you start taking spells and features and contrasting them to the planes. So why should the background feature be any different? The DM can say it doesn't work. That is fine with me. Or they can have it work, but with a caveat or work-a-round. Or they can just have it work. All are good.

There are reasons to expect the magic of a FR spellcaster's magic to still work if they found themselves in eberron (ie divine casters can cast spells through belief even if they believe in a concept or something rather than an actual deity). The trouble is that the PHB spells & equipment are very much designed for the needs of a middle earth inspired orc killing campaign where nobody has magic items & the math for that collapses when used in eberron unless you strip the setting away. Like Eberron, Ravenloft & Darksun almost need a different chapter for things like equipment magic & because the PHB is so heavily aimed at FR sometimes classes.

 

[Hriston]

Right, and the text of the new Backgrounds does exactly that...?

No, it does not. Maybe I should explain what I mean by “connects your character to the world.” I mean it explicitly grants you, the player, the right to posit established relationships with people and institutions and knowledge gained from your character’s years of past experience. The 2014 background features are full of phrases like “you can [expect to receive, call upon, find, secure, invoke, gain access]”, “you have [ties to, a residence, a contact, a rank]”, “you know”, “they will”, “people assume”, and “they defer”. The text of the UA sample backgrounds, in stark contrast, are past-tense accounts of suggested backstory with any indication of how past events might connect with the character's present place in the world left to be implied at best. The idea that it does the same thing because a DM, without any prompting from the rulebook, might grant a player the same rights and privileges is like saying a blank page supports building airplanes just as much as a set of airplane building instructions.

 

[Parmandur]

No, it does not. Maybe I should explain what I mean by “connects your character to the world.” I mean it explicitly grants you, the player, the right to posit established relationships with people and institutions and knowledge gained from your character’s years of past experience. The 2014 background features are full of phrases like “you can [expect to receive, call upon, find, secure, invoke, gain access]”, “you have [ties to, a residence, a contact, a rank]”, “you know”, “they will”, “people assume”, and “they defer”. The text of the UA sample backgrounds, in stark contrast, are past-tense accounts of suggested backstory with any indication of how past events might connect with the character's present place in the world left to be implied at best. The idea that it does the same thing because a DM, without any prompting from the rulebook, might grant a player the same rights and privileges is like saying a blank page supports building airplanes just as much as a set of airplane building instructions.

But thst seems to be a problem with phrasing in the 2014 books, since the reality is closer to the latter in practice.