D&D (2024) Do you plan to adopt D&D5.5One2024Redux?

[UngeheuerLich]

What’s the point in a player having a background they don’t utilize?

Exactly. This is why those backgrounds need to go the way of the dodo. Where we are back at my first post.

I didn’t say anything about anyone knowing the coffinmaker.

Ok. Then I misremembered. Why exactly should the coffinmaker no on knows help them?

Maybe because the coffinmaker's backstory is outlined in the adventure.

During their escape from the town guards they stumble by a wretched coffinmaker. If the adventurers look like common folk, he will quickly let them into their house and gives them some place to rest.

Makes a lot more sense than: "Hey, random person, you look exactly like the hero who chased the tax collector away after the bad winter in a village on a different plane of existence. This tale has travelled far and is an inspiration to every commoner in the whole multiverse."

 

[Clint_L]

Come and get it was one of the things that ultimately turned me off of 4E. Add in too many conditions, interrupts, combat that at higher levels took hours (in my experience 2-3 times longer than 5E fights). Toss in the lack of versatility of how you could use your powers so if you were a wizard that had an awesome spell that could be useful multiple times in an encounter, too bad ... wait ... I was just going to explain my issue with come and get it.

So the power stated that you insulted creatures around you and pulled them in next to you so you could smack them around. More or less. Except there was no way to insult many of the creatures because you shared no language. There was simply no narrative way to justify this most of the time in-world, to me and the vast majority of people I played with, it just screamed "Game mechanic for the win!" Toss in powers where my PC had an aura of weapon damage from rain of steel and, well, there was simply no way to justify it other than magic and I don't care what the label they slapped on it was.

So yes, it ultimately rubbed me the wrong way because there was no way I could visualize what was going on as a fantasy action movie. It didn't feel like I was the protagonist in any novel I ever read, it felt like I was an avatar of a video game. There were other issues as well that I haven't mentioned but to me it felt like a completely different game than any other edition of D&D. That doesn't make it an inherently bad game if it's what you want, it just didn't provide the same experience I had enjoyed in older editions or the current one.

“Come and Get It” was basically a straight-up taunt lifted from World of Warcraft, so it’s not surprising that your character felt like an avatar in a video game. That was the intent, and the designers didn’t really make any bones about the fact WoW was a phenomenon and the main inspiration for a lot of their choices.

For someone like me, for whom narrative coherence is a priority over game mechanics, this was a problem. The new way of doing backgrounds in 2024 has pros and cons, but in terms of narrative it goes in the right direction. For me.

 

[Cap'n Kobold]

but the corner cases are great at showing where the problems are… either something always works, or it does not. Once that is decided then maybe there is a point to looking into the limits, until then… not so much

The DM is always capable of putting a player's character into a position where they cannot use one of their features, whether class, racial or background.
I don't believe the person you are arguing with has ever stated that they can always use a feature, no matter what the situation.

 

[MuhVerisimilitude]

Come And Get It was great. The problem was the presentation and not the effect.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

Come And Get It was great. The problem was the presentation and not the effect.

Ok. Your turn. Change the presentation.

 

[MuhVerisimilitude]

Ok. Your turn. Change the presentation.

I don't remember exactly the details of the original so I tracked this down from a wiki

"Hit: You pull the target up to 2 squares to an adjacent square. If the target is adjacent to you after the pull, it takes 1[W] damage."

I have several issues with this, but let's give it a more sensible presentation.

"Every potential target within the affected area that can see you and which is ready for combat rolls a will save. If they fail this save they are forced to move next to you. Once every affected target has moved, you get a free attack against one of them."

This is a bit of a nerf in terms of the number of attacks, but I think it functions as a good start. (and this way no one can argue that my proposed fix is overpowered either)

 

[Oofta]

Ok. Your turn. Change the presentation.

You just insult the enemy even if you don't share a language, threaten the wolf cubs that suddenly appear, get in the way of the enemy without moving somehow.

None of those make sense or match the power (after the first I suppose), but they were the examples given.

 

[Oofta]

I don't remember exactly the details of the original so I tracked this down from a wiki

"Hit: You pull the target up to 2 squares to an adjacent square. If the target is adjacent to you after the pull, it takes 1[W] damage."

I have several issues with this, but let's give it a more sensible presentation.

"Every potential target within the affected area that can see you and which is ready for combat rolls a will save. If they fail this save they are forced to move next to you. Once every affected target has moved, you get a free attack against one of them."

This is a bit of a nerf in terms of the number of attacks, but I think it functions as a good start. (and this way no one can argue that my proposed fix is overpowered either)

Changjng the power significantly making it less useful is not changing the presentation. You just made it a weaker, explicitly supernatural ability.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

I don't remember exactly the details of the original so I tracked this down from a wiki

"Hit: You pull the target up to 2 squares to an adjacent square. If the target is adjacent to you after the pull, it takes 1[W] damage."

I have several issues with this, but let's give it a more sensible presentation.

"Every potential target within the affected area that can see you and which is ready for combat rolls a will save. If they fail this save they are forced to move next to you. Once every affected target has moved, you get a free attack against one of them."

This is a bit of a nerf in terms of the number of attacks, but I think it functions as a good start. (and this way no one can argue that my proposed fix is overpowered either)

I agree with your rewrite. This is how I would do it. But this is chamging the mechanics as well as the presentation.

And it is still martial magic. Better, but still not good.
How about mindless creatures? Only humanoid targets that can fall for your feint. Maybe animals too?

I did like 4e and I still do like those powers. But my problem with them was always that you had to bend the story around game mechanics. And at some point you just pushed your buttons in a certain way.

If powers were written with story in mind, all could have been different. But this would have needed that you don't have one use of every power, but a choice of powers you could use several times. If a power does not work against certain foes, you needed an alternative one. That was my main issue.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

You just insult the enemy even if you don't share a language, threaten the wolf cubs that suddenly appear, get in the way of the enemy without moving somehow.

This question was not for you sorry. I know your opinion and I do share it. But I was genuinely interested in a better presentation.

None of those make sense or match the power (after the first I suppose), but they were the examples given.

Actually I did like the principle of this power. I also endorsed the stickiness of the base fighter even when using not a single power. But yes. Always trying to find an excuse for powers became tedious. And after a while noone vothered about telling a story anymore. We just shouted the power name and played it like a board game... dsspite our best efforts.