D&D (2024) Do you think they will add more races to PHB2024 to make up for dropping other stuff?

[Remathilis]

Do you  really see the '24 changes as errata?

Errata plus post-Tasha options becoming standard. The most recent packets barely move the needle as far as changes are concerned. Unless packet 7 really does something wild, the proposed changes equal a good 3e era errata document and an Everything guide.

 

[MonsterEnvy]

Trance is a meaningless ribbon, but I don't want my Khoravar to be forced to take it just by virtue of also wanting access to the equally worthless Fey Ancestry.
Keen Senses gives me one fixed skill proficiency at the cost of two floating ones, removing the only "Human" trait they had.
And the Elven Lineage choice only further pushes the character into being an Elf above all else.

I get that it's a strict power upgrade, but it's a strict power upgrade that turns the Khoravar I was interested in playing into an Elf that I'm not.

If we want to talk about bringing the '14 Half-Elf up to spec with current species design, that's an entirely different conversation, but that still requires letting Half-Elves have some kind of mechanics for themselves.

Half elves always leaned more elf than human. I am glad it now lets you pick who you more take after like in LotR

 

[FitzTheRuke]

So in order to play a Khoravar from House Lyrandar, I now have to play a human and spend all of my first level feats to get both elf traits and my Mark of Storm.

If the solution to not dealing with mixed-ancestry within the species mechanics is to turn bundles of species traits into feat packages, what even is the point of having species mechanics anymore?

We're basically building up a conceptual system where the act of choosing your character's species is just mixing-and-matching a selection of "ancestry feats", so how is that really all that different than mixing-and-matching species traits in the first place? The fact that it costs more character customization resources and still forces you to take everything from the "elf" package in order to justify being "part-elf"?

I think it was just a suggestion - one that no one thinks that WotC is likely to attempt, so I wouldn't worry about it. Or in other words: Your objection is noted, valued, and understood. We have nixed the non-existent racial feat! Nixed it, I say!

 

[RhaezDaevan]

I wish more players of mixed heritage had chimed in, as I value their input on the "soft erasure" of the half-elf and half-orc more, since it sounds like the changes were done for those players' benefit. I think we had two, one on either side of the argument? (Correct me if I missed some)

 

[Vaalingrade]

I wish more players of mixed heritage had chimed in, as I value their input on the "soft erasure" of the half-elf and half-orc more, since it sounds like the changes were done for those players' benefit. I think we had two, one on either side of the argument? (Correct me if I missed some)

Much like the Hadozee thing where they changed to lore to get rid of the happiness in captivity deal only to pick minstrel imagery for a species uplifted for the purpose of slavery, they traded bad for bad without checking to see what they were actually doing.

In this case, trading mulato and assault narratives for the one drop rule.

Changing it wasn't the mistake, how they changed it was.

Charitably, I'd call it growing pains of trying to pivot from the apology edition that tried to reel in the people who came up on Howard and Lovecraft with hard men making hard choices against inherently bad people with a very... outdated... attitude toward racial intermarriage to the actual situation they find themselves in with a fanbase coming in from Stranger Things and a webshow that actively encourages them to 'be kind to each other'.

 

[Mirrorrorrim]

I'm mixed and am against the term "Half" being used as a societal reference to a marginalized group. This means "Half-elf" (specifically as a societal label or rules object) feels off to me. An individual can call themselves "Half" all they want (that doesn't bother me, and it doesn't make you racist for wanting to identify that way), but that is a personal choice. Being called "Half-something" should not be forced on all mixed folk as a societal label, or in a game rulebook.

Also, regarding the Origins UA Mixed Species argument, the "One Drop Rule" accusation is inapplicable. It's not even a good metaphor. You don't have to like the rule, but don't misprepresent it with real world racist accusations. The One Drop Rule said if you had one drop of something, you are only that thing. That is not what is happening. If a character was born of an Elf and a Half-elf parent, they are going to have the stats of either an Elf or a Half-elf, not a mix of both. It's not racist to say the player has to pick one Species to represent their Species Abilities. Using that same logic, it's not racist for the child of an Elf and Human to have the species abilities of one of the parents. It is the same player choice for if the parents were an Elf and a Half-elf (unless the DM limited it further, like in Eberron.)

One could argue that Eberron's take on Khoravar half-elves is more problematic because in Eberron, all Half-elves breed true, erasing their human and elven origins. But we need to stop going down both those rabbit holes.

Species abilities are not the sole representation of a character. Their cosmetic portrayal, cultural origins and story, and having the species "tag", all matter. Using the Origins document, sibling "half-elves" (even twins) don't have to have the same species abilities. They can each take after a different parent, and be diverse both mechanically and visually. Heck, they can even be paternal twins that look identical but have different species abilities based on their parentage. There is no erasure. The player is the one getting to choose how the character presents mechanically and visually. The player has the same options as everyone else, but their appearance and background can be more diverse/unique. That's even more freedom.

 

[Vaalingrade]

Also, regarding the Origins UA Mixed Species argument, the "One Drop Rule" accusation is inapplicable. It's not even a good metaphor. You don't have to like the rule, but don't misprepresent it with real world racist accusations. The One Drop Rule said if you had one drop of something, you are only that thing. That is not what is happening.

"You aren't both. Pick one." is an issue. Whether you want to argue the exact terminology is another thing entirely.

One could argue that Eberron's take on Khoravar half-elves is more problematic because in Eberron, all Half-elves breed true, erasing their human and elven origins.

I call that my mixed fantasy. One I kind of live being third generation mixed and looking eagerly to my demographic's burgeoning numbers.

I can't wait to stop being a daywalker with all of their strengths and none of their weaknesses; a sad child with one foot in each world, a hybrid bred for my skill at magic, and just being a guy.

 

[Mirrorrorrim]

"You aren't both. Pick one." is an issue. Whether you want to argue the exact terminology is another thing entirely.

That is not the narrative being portrayed. The character is more than the species abilities, and that cannot be ignored. The character is both species and that may be apparent in their appearance and background or whatever the player wants. But someone else reminded me recently of the "game" aspect of the game. Essentially, you still have to make the same choice as everyone else. Pick the Species stat block you want to use for the game.

In current D&D, if your character's parents are an elf and a half-elf, you still have to pick one species to represent your character's in-game stats. (Unless it is Eberron and the DM says you can't be an elf or a human, you can only be a half-elf, because half-elves breed true. But that is even closer to the One Drop Rule than the other position).

The rules for an elf/half-elf hybrid character should also apply for the progeny of an elf and a human.

 

[Vaalingrade]

That is not the narrative being portrayed.

That's not the narrative, that's the text the company that had a species of enslaved monkey men is proposing to put in about characters of mixed-race heritage.

They should not do that.

 

[Remathilis]

Also, regarding the Origins UA Mixed Species argument, the "One Drop Rule" accusation is inapplicable. It's not even a good metaphor. You don't have to like the rule, but don't misprepresent it with real world racist accusations. The One Drop Rule said if you had one drop of something, you are only that thing. That is not what is happening. If a character was born of an Elf and a Half-elf parent, they are going to have the stats of either an Elf or a Half-elf, not a mix of both. It's not racist to say the player has to pick one Species to represent their Species Abilities. Using that same logic, it's not racist for the child of an Elf and Human to have the species abilities of one of the parents. It is the same player choice for if the parents were an Elf and a Half-elf (unless the DM limited it further, like in Eberron.)

There is never going to be a system that perfectly fits all the possible genetic combinations a character can have. For example, a human-elf produces a half-elf, but the half-elf goes and procreates with a tiefling. We now have a child who has a mixture of fiendish, elven, and human abilities. How do you model that? At a certain point, it must come down to "pick a stat-block" if only to avoid genealogies made in the process of stat-mixing ("Did I mention Grandpa Michael was an aasimar? That means I can select the celestial wings trait...")