Doctor Who s8e4: "Listen"; best ep of the year so far!

[Elven]

Definitely the best episode of the season so far, and one of the best in awhile. I much prefer Capaldi to whatisface, fezhead.
Thoughts as I watched the episode:

• Oh look. Another creepy childhood episode. Are you my mummy? Don't blink. Silence.
• Does this tie into the Silence? It'll be pretty bloody stupid if there are two hiding races following us. Do they have conferences?
• It doesn't seem like it ties in. Half of the crap in this show never makes the leap to connect with anything that it ought to.
• Danny seems awful sensitive. I hope he's seeing a shrink.
• Clara and the Doctor are getting on as equals much more than I can remember seeing ever before with a Doctor and a companion. That's awesome.
• It's also awesome that Clara gets to have a life AND go adventuring while she's nabbing supplies from the supply closet.
• It'd be nice if a guy was introduced and DIDN'T become the boyfriend of the companion.
• Clara is much better with people than the doctor is. Guess that's what comes of being the Carer.
• F*ck me, it comes 'round and makes sense! No tie to the Silence necessary! Glory be, hallelujah!
• She should've told him he could be anything he wanted, even a doctor. That would've been a lovely seed.
• I'll bet dollars we see that toy soldier again.

Danny is sensitive because he has killed (while a solider)
Yes, like the leaf before, the toy solider will no doubt show up again, and remember its an item kept in the family....

 

[Morrus]

If it was "time locked" how can the Doctor be?, surely he would have also been time locked, at his birth, at the academy, etc, same for the master?

If its retroactive, how is there a doctor?

He's the exception. He's the one who locked it. He's outside the time lock.

(And the Master escaped by hiding in a chameleon device/fobwatch).

 

[Elven]

He's the exception. He's the one who locked it. He's outside the time lock.

(And the Master escaped by hiding in a chameleon device/fobwatch).

No, thats not what i mean,

If the time lock is retroactive, then it should go back in time before he was born, right?

 

[Morrus]

No, thats not what i mean,

If the time lock is retroactive, then it should go back in time before he was born, right?

It does.

Don't try to out-logic the time lock. It's not possible. You just have to accept it. These things never bear close scrutiny well.

 

[Elven]

It does.

Don't try to out-logic the time lock. It's not possible. You just have to accept it. These things never bear close scrutiny well.

But, surely that would be a contradiction?


KAAAAAAAAAAAHNN!!!

....i mean..

MCGUUUUUFFFFFIN!!!!!!!

 

[Nellisir]

(btw: time locked events are a McGuffin, anything can be time locked not due to anything technical, but its story driven, (and then they make up an excuse)
A time locked event/place in the rpg is at the gm whim, (no hard fast rules, if the gm says its so, it is) and remembered that the rpg has to be cleared by the BBC themselves before they can be printed,)

You keep misusing MacGuffin. The time-lock is a plot device, but it's not a MacGuffin. A MacGuffin is an object or goal whose actual nature is unimportant to the plot; it's simply a motivation for the hero to act. It's the scrap of fur on a stick that greyhounds chase. (Per Wikipedia, the One Ring is not a MacGuffin because the nature of the One Ring is important; the nature of "the stolen necklace" by contrast is not important in most mysteries.)

The time-lock is a plot-device that can by bypassed in part by the great contrivance deus ex machina, aka the Tardis. It's actually the opposite of a MacGuffin because the time-lock doesn't propel the protagonist forward; it's an obstacle for the protagonist to surmount, which makes it just like any other obstacle the protagonist must overcome. Without obstacles, there's no conflict, and without conflict, there's no story. And its actual nature is of importance to the plot. You couldn't substitute a chain-link fence for the time-lock and have the same effect.

 

[Nellisir]

Danny is sensitive because he has killed (while a solider)
Yes, like the leaf before, the toy solider will no doubt show up again, and remember its an item kept in the family....

Yes, I get that Danny has killed. It's hard not to get that; he keeps weeping about it. Lots of people in this show have killed someone, including the Doctor. I'm not sure about Clara. Danny needs a shrink.

 

[Marius Delphus]

The FASA Doctor Who RPG stated outright that TARDISes cannot travel into Gallifrey's past. In fact, a TARDIS was always required to arrive on Gallifrey after the last time it left Gallifrey (from the POV of Gallifrey) though the amount of time the TARDIS spent away from Gallifrey (from the POV of the travelers) didn't necessarily correspond 1:1 to the amount of time that passed on Gallifrey (from the POV of Gallifrey).

I always thought this was canon, but I don't have a cite to a televised episode handy.

 

[Elven]

You keep misusing MacGuffin. The time-lock is a plot device, but it's not a MacGuffin. A MacGuffin is an object or goal whose actual nature is unimportant to the plot; it's simply a motivation for the hero to act. It's the scrap of fur on a stick that greyhounds chase. (Per Wikipedia, the One Ring is not a MacGuffin because the nature of the One Ring is important; the nature of "the stolen necklace" by contrast is not important in most mysteries.)

The time-lock is a plot-device that can by bypassed in part by the great contrivance deus ex machina, aka the Tardis. It's actually the opposite of a MacGuffin because the time-lock doesn't propel the protagonist forward; it's an obstacle for the protagonist to surmount, which makes it just like any other obstacle the protagonist must overcome. Without obstacles, there's no conflict, and without conflict, there's no story. And its actual nature is of importance to the plot. You couldn't substitute a chain-link fence for the time-lock and have the same effect.

Can't think of a quote to use to display this is not the case, but the term has long been used as a reason or excuse to do or not do X, W or Z,
McGuffin is the item or technical reason for that desired effect,

I'm sure I've heard Moffat use the term more than once, (heard the Sonic screwdriver described as a McGuffin, and that item by definition is not a restriction)

(Also George Lucas used the term for "McGuffin" for the item/reason to go after something in his stories...so wiki can suck it)

A McGuffin is a plot device, a simple excuse to get from point A, to point B,

So you are wrong

 

[Elven]

Yes, I get that Danny has killed. It's hard not to get that; he keeps weeping about it. Lots of people in this show have killed someone, including the Doctor. I'm not sure about Clara. Danny needs a shrink.

No, its actually a very "realistic" reaction to the after math of killing,
killing is not a natural thing for anyone to do, all are damaged from it,
and even hardened criminals in prison can cry from it,


Its actual one of the things i liked in the show,
that its not so sort of cheesy bang bang you are dead, but that such actions have serous consequences, living with regret being on of them,