does anyone else think half-orcs get gypped?

[Grog]

So, an ability that lets you pinpoint invisible foes that you are next to? Sounds amazingly strong to me. Especially including being aware of hidden foes within 15-60ft.

Anyone can pinpoint an invisible foe. All you have to do is walk around the battlefield with your arms spread wide open. Since most 3.x combat takes place in dungeons, you can probably cover a great many rooms with a single or double move action.

 

[Grog]

A human fighter can have combat expertise, improved trip, improved disarm, an entire feat chain of really nice tanking abilities with a 13 int. A Half-Orc has to drop a 15 in int just to learn the feats. Dunno about you, but those feats are pretty good.

So the half-orc has to spend 3 more points on Int than the human does. This isn't the tremendous disadvantage you're making it out to be, especially since the half-orc doesn't have to spend as many points on Str.

And that's only if he wants those particular feats. Not every fighter takes them. Far from it.

Skills? They can matter. Sure.They are part of the whole. Half-Orcs dont get a bonus feat. They dont get bonus skill points, no bonus to saves, no bonus to skills, no crafting, no nothing. They get 2 strength, and thats it.

Humans don't get a bonus to saves or a bonus to skills either. Again, the difference is not nearly as huge as you're making it out to be.

Humans get: One bonus feat, one bonus skill point per level
Half-orcs get: +2 Str, -2 Int, -2 Cha, Darkvision

Sure, a bonus feat is a really nice thing to have at first level, but if you're playing a fighter, it's not that significant by 8th level or so. I'd say the bonus feat and the darkvision balance each other out, with the darkvision probably being a little bit better at lower levels and not as good at higher levels.

Which leaves humans with their +1 skill points per level versus the half-orcs stat modifiers. Like I said, for most classes, more skill points really aren't that much of a bonus. For a meele fighter, I'd rather have the +2 Strength, even with the Int and Cha penalty.

Skills are just a FURTHER slap in the face of the half-orc, that and the fact that halflings are MORE intimidating.

Wrong. Halflings are Small, which gives them a -4 on Intimidate checks relative to half-orcs. Factoring in the Charisma penalty, that means that all other things being equal, they'll always have an Intimidate check 3 points better than a halfling's.

 

[Plane Sailing]

Anyone can pinpoint an invisible foe. All you have to do is walk around the battlefield with your arms spread wide open. Since most 3.x combat takes place in dungeons, you can probably cover a great many rooms with a single or double move action.

You would have a very generous DM who allowed you to do that, and it wouldn't be of any benefit in combat either.

I'm hoping that you are joking here...

 

[Grog]

You would have a very generous DM who allowed you to do that, and it wouldn't be of any benefit in combat either.

I'm hoping that you are joking here...

"Allowed?" It's simple common sense; a human-sized creature with their arms spread open covers roughly five feet of space. You just keep moving until you run into the invisible creature. Then your friends attack it.

This tactic obviously wouldn't work in a wide-open outdoor location or a big cave (and the scent ability wouldn't work very well in those areas either), but in an average-sized dungeon room, it's extremely effective.

 

[smootrk]

I wouldn't allow it, because despite D&D Combat being turned based, it is really an abstract of events all occurring nearly simultaneously, including the invis critter being as evasive as the 'finder' is trying to locate. The other characters would not gain any benefit, just because one person accidentally-onpurpose bumped into an invis being during the round.

 

[Thurbane]

How about:

Empty headed: Half orcs have a +2 bonus against mind affecting spells and effects.

Abused: Can Take Die Hard feat without meeting prerequisite.

Kinslayer: +1 to hit orcs in melee

-These are human raised traits-

Labourer +50% carring capacity

Thrown down the well and came right back: +2 to swim and climb checks.

-These are orc raised traits-

Orcish leader: +2 to Leadership score if cohort and at least 50% of followers have orc blood.

Beast rider +2 to ride checks and handle animal on dire wolves [or other campaign specific orcish mount].

Nobody's bitch: +4 to on checks to escape grapple and break pins.

The pretty face: +3 on diplomacy checks with orcs, gnolls, gobliniods, minotaurs and non-good giants.

Great stuff as usual, frank.

 

[AbeTheGnome]

Y'know, those are awesome ideas!

YOINKED!

ditto.

So, an ability that lets you pinpoint invisible foes that you are next to? Sounds amazingly strong to me. Especially including being aware of hidden foes within 15-60ft.

following this logic, you wouldn't let a human choose blind-fight with his bonus feat? being aware through scent that an invisible being is present doesn't allow you to attack them, it just means that you won't be flat-footed when the dagger falls. maybe not even that... scent seems awfully close to blindsense, effectively, and blindsense doesn't remove flat-footedness against invisible attackers. furthermore, an invisible opponent would have to be adjacent for you to pinpoint its location, and you'd still get the miss chance because of concealment.

Are you seriously using skill points as the criteria for determining how good a class is? No offense, but that's just silly. Except for rogues and maybe bards, skills just aren't that important for most classes. Most classes have one or two important skills that they'll max out (like Concentration and Spellcraft for casters), but beyond that, they're just gravy.

this all depends on the game, i think. i tend to run very skill-intensive games, where you can't solve every problem with a sword or a spell. so, yeah, in my game, skill points per level make a big difference.

 

[Klaus]

The strength of the human bonus feat isn't the feat per se, but the ability to meet requirements for stronger abilities up to 3 levels earlier. That's very significant.

 

[Grog]

I wouldn't allow it, because despite D&D Combat being turned based, it is really an abstract of events all occurring nearly simultaneously, including the invis critter being as evasive as the 'finder' is trying to locate. The other characters would not gain any benefit, just because one person accidentally-onpurpose bumped into an invis being during the round.

But if the invisible creature is spending all its time being evasive, it can't do anything else. This could be reflected in game mechanics by the invisible creature readying an action to move away if one of the PCs approaches it. But if it does this, it can't take any action of its own, and with multiple characters walking around the room, it's going to get found very quickly, since you can only ready one action per round.

 

[smootrk]

I can evade blows/touch at any time during the round... its called AC value, and it is effective throughout the round. No creature is just standing idle, waiting to be touched by people with their arms outstretched and waving about like a person in a dark room. No readying is necessary for basic defense posture.

Like I said, it is an abstract of multiple actions occurring nearly simultaneously. It is not a perfect, orderly, choreography. It is a game-mechanic used to resolve the combat situation... and it is not without its flaws.