Does damage from a touch attack ignore Damage Reduction

[Bagpuss]

It's being applied in the sense that DR does not just negate a touch attack because its a touch attack.

That's odd because then the sentence should read...

Damage reduction does not negate melee attacks, ranged attacks, touch attacks, energy damage dealt along with an attack, or energy drains.

Because it doesn't actually stop you hitting them with a melee attack even though it negates the damage, and it doesn't stop you hitting them with a ranged attack even though it negates the damage.

You never see DR 10/touch attacks. Granted, you never see DR 10/energy drain either, but touch attacks and energy drain are not sources, they are different types of damage.

Exactly both of which are not negated by DR, and both are mentioned as such in the same sentence.

In fact, touch attacks aren't even a type of damage, its a type of damage dealing that isn't hindered by the recipient wearing armor in the same way that a corporeal sword or arrow would be. I don't see why only having to touch someone with your sword to make them bleed would get rid of their (usually) innate ability to reduce physical damage done.

Because when this rule was written touch attacks that just did damage did it by weird supernatural means. The most common from of just damage dealing touch attacks are from incorporeal undead. All a ghost has to do is touch you with its corrupting touch and it deals it's damage, by some weird supernatural means like withering or however your DM describes it. It makes prefect sense for these to defeat the DR of Adamantine armour and natural DR of a Barbarian.

Remember this was written when Wraithstrike didn't exist, touch attacks defeating DR isn't what is broken it's Wraithstrike. I agree Wraithstrike probably shouldn't defeat certain types of DR, like a natural DR that represents toughness, like a Barbarian or Demons, but it should defeat other types like Adamantine armour which it will pass right through. Which just goes further to show that Wraithstrike is a badly written spell.

 

[Nail]

I have a touch attack that deals 4 damage. I use it against a creature with DR 5/--.

DR does not negate touch attacks.

Is the damage from your touch attack weapon damage? If so, then your touch attack does no damage.

Is the damage a special effect - like negative energy - perhaps from a spell? If so, then your touch attack does 4 points of damage.

 

[Nail]

Unfortunately if this ruling makes Wraithstrike totally over powered or not is neither here nor there.

FWIW: agreed.

 

[Bagpuss]

Is the damage from your touch attack weapon damage? If so, then your touch attack does no damage.

Is the damage a special effect - like negative energy - perhaps from a spell? If so, then your touch attack does 4 points of damage.

Damage from weapons and creatures isn't typed.

And unfortunately if you say Wraithstrike touch attack weapon damage is stopped by DR then you have to say a ghosts Corrupting Touch* incorporeal touch attack claw damage is blocked by DR and the same for a Spectre* and other incorporeal creatures.

It makes sense to me that a ghost or spectre can chill me to the bone with a touch and it cause my Barbarian damage (and his hair to turn white), and it make a huge amount of sense that if it's touch attack can pass through the AC bonus of my Adamantine Breastplate it can avoid the DR of it as well.

That seems to be the intention when 'touch attack' was listed as not negated by DR, along with energy drain and energy damage.



*Perhaps their attacks should be negative energy but they aren't (otherwise they would go round hitting each other to heal themselves). Now that would be mean on a party.

 

[Nail]

That seems to be the intention when 'touch attack' was listed as not negated by DR, along with energy drain and energy damage.

I won't argue intention...as the first intention of the writer should have been to write clearly.

 

[Bagpuss]

I won't argue intention...as the first intention of the writer should have been to write clearly.

"FWIW: agreed."

 

[Hypersmurf]

Is the damage from your touch attack weapon damage?

Certainly. But so is the 1d6 fire damage from a Flaming longsword; it is the weapon that deals +1d6 damage, therefore it is 'weapon damage', no?

It is also lethal damage. It is also energy damage. It is also fire damage. It is also damage resulting from a touch attack (assuming Wraithstrike).

The +1d6 fire damage is weapon damage, but it is not negated by DR because it is energy damage dealt along with an attack. The 1d8 slashing damage is weapon damage, but it is not negated by DR because it is a touch attack.

-Hyp.

 

[two]

Damage from weapons and creatures isn't typed.

...
It makes sense to me that a ghost or spectre can chill me to the bone with a touch and it cause my Barbarian damage (and his hair to turn white), and it make a huge amount of sense that if it's touch attack can pass through the AC bonus of my Adamantine Breastplate it can avoid the DR of it as well.

*Perhaps their attacks should be negative energy but they aren't (otherwise they would go round hitting each other to heal themselves). Now that would be mean on a party.

Good point about the Adamantine Breastplate DR.

Hm... really good point. Obviously you bypass that DR since you bypass the Armor... hm... I was leaning towards "touch attacks don't necessarily ignore DR" but this is a good point.

Hmmmm.

 

[Hypersmurf]

Good point about the Adamantine Breastplate DR.

Hm... really good point. Obviously you bypass that DR since you bypass the Armor...

Well, not necessarily.

A Brilliant Energy weapon doesn't take into account the armor bonus of an Adamantine breastplate, but as far as I can tell, the DR still applies.

Wraithstrike lets you 'bypass' the DR because touch attacks are not negated. Brilliant Energy doesn't, because all it lets you ignore is the armor bonus... the armor grants the DR to the wearer, and the Brilliant Energy doesn't ignore the wearer.

-Hyp.

 

[Bagpuss]

Yeah it would have been better* to phrase Wraithstrike like Brilliant Energy, but Brilliant Energy should have been phrased so DR granted by armour was bypassed as well.


*By better I mean clearer as to how it works, it would still be broken, if not more so.