Does Ray of Frost + Piercing Cold + Sneak Attack = A decent option?

[mikebr99]

Hello,

A wicked prestige class in the Vile Darkness permit the spellcaster to do sneak attack with spells. i dont remember the name, but this for the follower of a demon lord. Maybe you could just make some adjustment to this prestige class and allow it in your campaign world if this fit your need.

Or the arcane trickster in the dmg.?

 

[MoonZar]

Hummm i don't know about the arcane trickster, i dont remember that he have this particular ability.

Anyway this something very specific to do sneak attack with spell and this should be only allowed in a prestige class i think...

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

Anyway this something very specific to do sneak attack with spell and this should be only allowed in a prestige class i think...

Why?

In order to Sneak Attack with a spell, you need:

1) To actually be in a position where you could Sneak Attack (i.e., flanking, defender denied Dex, etc.)
2) Be using a spell that requires a to-hit roll
3) Be using a spell that does damage

In other words, you can only sneak attack with a spell in a situation where you could also sneak attack with a dagger or a crossbow.

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

If you have the Improved Unarmed Strike feat...

Even without the Improved Unarmed Strike feat, you can sneak attack with an unarmed strike.

With a sap (blackjack) or an unarmed strike, a rogue can make a sneak attack that deals nonlethal damage instead of lethal damage. She cannot use a weapon that deals lethal damage to deal nonlethal damage in a sneak attack, not even with the usual –4 penalty.

 

[MoonZar]

Why?

In order to Sneak Attack with a spell, you need:

1) To actually be in a position where you could Sneak Attack (i.e., flanking, defender denied Dex, etc.)
2) Be using a spell that requires a to-hit roll
3) Be using a spell that does damage

In other words, you can only sneak attack with a spell in a situation where you could also sneak attack with a dagger or a crossbow.

I think so in particular because a prestige class in the vile darkness give this particular ability, the whole prestige class is build for this, so this make the class worthless if everybody (thief/mage) can do it.

Anyway if you don't want to use a prestige class to do it, why not, but i think this should be inside a 30' feet range, to reflect the rules with ranged weapon. So this make the wizard vulnerable to a counter attack.

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

I think so in particular because a prestige class in the vile darkness give this particular ability, the whole prestige class is build for this, so this make the class worthless if everybody (thief/mage) can do it.

EVERYBODY. CAN. DO. IT. ALREADY.

So, if that's the only benefit of the PrC, it *is* worthless. However, you're likely misremembering what ability, exactly, the BoVD PrC granted. It probably did something like change your spell's sneak attack damage into Vile damage or something similar.

Furthermore, have you ever read the Exotic Weapon Master PrC?

He gets a really cool special ability that lets him treat a one-handed exotic weapon, when wielded in two-hands, as a two-handed weapon for purposes of Power Attack.

I leave the relevance of this data point as an exercise to the reader.

Anyway if you don't want to use a prestige class to do it, why not, but i think this should be inside a 30' feet range, to reflect the rules with ranged weapon. So this make the wizard vulnerable to a counter attack.

Absolutely - and that's the way the rule works, currently. In other words, it works exactly the same for a spell as it does with a crossbow.

 

[John Q. Mayhem]

Keep in mind that the BoVD is somewhat outdated.

 

[MoonZar]

EVERYBODY. CAN. DO. IT. ALREADY.

So, if that's the only benefit of the PrC, it *is* worthless. However, you're likely misremembering what ability, exactly, the BoVD PrC granted. It probably did something like change your spell's sneak attack damage into Vile damage or something similar.

Furthermore, have you ever read the Exotic Weapon Master PrC?

He gets a really cool special ability that lets him treat a one-handed exotic weapon, when wielded in two-hands, as a two-handed weapon for purposes of Power Attack.

I leave the relevance of this data point as an exercise to the reader.



Absolutely - and that's the way the rule works, currently. In other words, it works exactly the same for a spell as it does with a crossbow.

I didn't know that this was a official rules, can you point me out exactly where in the book this writed ? I'm very curious about it and i'll apply it to my campaign world also...

Anyway i thought this class could be an exemple of what he's trying to do. My bad then, i didn't know this was an official rules

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

Keep in mind that the BoVD is somewhat outdated.

Sneak attacks with spells were possible in 3.0, as well. So I don't believe that this is the issue.

 

[MoonZar]

Keep in mind that the BoVD is somewhat outdated.

I know that this 3.0 stuff but i still use it sometime for reference. But i think they have release an update to convert it to 3.5, i dont remember.