D&D (2024) Does WotC view the Monk class as overtuned from their perspective?

[Charlaquin]

No, they aren’t. They’re moderately good. The Warlock’s Armor of Shadows isn’t generally praised as a really powerful invocation, or as soemthing you have to take, it’s just solid. It’s good.

I’ve generally seen people consider Armor of Shadows one of the weaker Invocations, seeing as it’s functionally just +1 AC the majority of the time. And if medium armor proficiency becomes standard for Warlocks in 2024, it’s likely to become an even weaker option than it already is.

 

[Parmandur]

But I do think WotC *over*values them, significantly.

You see, that's where I disagree, because I am sure they have specific mathematical formulas for figuring out the value of any AC or damage ability.

 

[Parmandur]

I’ve generally seen people consider Armor of Shadows one of the weaker Invocations, seeing as it’s functionally just +1 AC the majority of the time. And if medium armor proficiency becomes standard for Warlocks in 2024, it’s likely to become an even weaker option than it already is.

I tend to doubt that Warlocks will get Medium Armor by default for precisely that reason. And any AC bonus atwill is pretty significant.

 

[Charlaquin]

So, yes, they are good, and require zero prep and cannot be taken away.ar or of Shadows is, in fact, great, same as any other Invocatoionthat turns a Level 1 Spell into an at-will. The Monk AC ability is, first, better than the Level 1 Spell, and secondly, always on is better than at-will. I'm not saying thst it is "OP," but it is valuable.

Unarmored Defense is functionally about on par with medium armor proficiency, IMO. Between that and martial arts, which is about the value of martial weapon proficiency, you’ve got a class who’s 1st level features amount to less raw power than other martial characters get before their class features. Is having access to that power in the one session where your characters get thrown in prison or whatever worth enough to make up for monks not having any other 1st level features? Not in my opinion.

 

[Charlaquin]

You see, that's where I disagree, because I am sure they have specific mathematical formulas for figuring out the value of any AC or damage ability.

I’m sure they do too; what I’m saying is, I think such features are overvalued in those formulae.

 

[Charlaquin]

I tend to doubt that Warlocks will get Medium Armor by default for precisely that reason.

I mean, they did in the UA, and I expect that’s a change very likely to meet the satisfaction threshold, as it’s an oft-requested change and buffs tend to poll well in general.

 

[Parmandur]

Unarmored Defense is functionally about on par with medium armor proficiency, IMO. Between that and martial arts, which is about the value of martial weapon proficiency, you’ve got a class who’s 1st level features amount to less raw power than other martial characters get before their class features. Is having access to that power in the one session where your characters get thrown in prison or whatever worth enough to make up for monks not having any other 1st level features? Not in my opinion.

In 2014, the attack eventually becomes magical, and in 2024 ir likes like it will pull the same trick by providing Force damage instead of mere mortal forms of damage, sooo...yes, I do think it is quite a valuable feature...?

 

[Charlaquin]

In 2014, the attack eventually becomes magical, and in 2024 ir likes like it will pull the same trick by providing Force damage instead of mere mortal forms of damage, sooo...yes, I do think it is quite a valuable feature...?

That’s a separate feature from martial arts.

Let me put it this way: imagine a new class, with 1d8 hit die, proficiency in martial weapons and medium armor but not shields, and its only 1st level feature was that it can’t be disarmed or have its armor forcibly removed. Would that be good? I certainly don’t think so. And it would arguably be better than the monk, because it’d be able to upgrade its AC without having to invest in ability score increases just by buying better armor.

 

[Minigiant]

The lead designers are in their mid 50s right.

That means their main formatitive years of D&D would have been in 2e and early 3e.

So it makes sense that their value of, speed, good unarmored AC, not needing weapons, lower barrier of optimization, and power based of rolling good stats is high.

 

[Parmandur]

That’s a separate feature from martial arts.

Let me put it this way: imagine a new class, with 1d8 hit die, proficiency in martial weapons and medium armor but not shields, and its only 1st level feature was that it can’t be disarmed or have its armor forcibly removed. Would that be good? I certainly don’t think so. And it would arguably be better than the monk, because it’d be able to upgrade its AC without having to invest in ability score increases just by buying better armor.

Starting with up to 19 AC, and the ability to not be dependent on weapons, not need to up Stength for anything , and a special bonus attack every turn...? That's pretty good, and scales fast once Spell-like abilities on a Short Rest recharge come online after 1 session.