D&D 5E Drow "Sunlight Sensitivity" workarounds?

[Lackhand]

Post-turkey posting, hiding from the relatives

Because you quote some of my posts, I feel like this post was pointed at me, and contains a lot of "ur doing it wrong" that I don't feel is fair.

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Taking the only interesting/unique...and yes, limiting feature of the race out of the game is nothing more than player entitlement. All attempts to argue/explain that away are simple or deliberate deception. The player wants [and/or DM wants to give them] all of the bells and whistles without the limits. The [multiple] plusses without the [single] minus. It's really that simple.

They are "sick of disadvantage all the time"? Yes I imagine they would be. Did they know they were going to be adventuring with non-drow above ground for, presumably, a good chunk or at least "sections of" the campaign? I presume they did. Welcome to being a drow in the sunlit world. The OP has already said that the "next section" of the adventure will incorporate the drow (which, unless everyone's getting goggles for X-mas means they are going to be underground). Bully, so then your PC will shine a bit more than your non-drow companions.

'Til then, you're going to have disadvantage for those chunks of adventure that are happening above ground in the day time. If the other PC/players aren't agreeing to do stuff at night or on rainy days, then that's the issue to handle. Not "Mr./Ms. DM fix it for me." Take care of it in or out of character with those players/their characters! Not, well we'll just remove the limitation. Problem solved.

For some, it's fine and dandy. For others of us, that would just be...bad. I don't know how else to say it. It's clearly not "wrong" as there is no "wrong" in D&D. But it's...not the kind of game some of us would prefer to run or be in.

As an interesting [to me] aside, I bet the bulk of those saying "You're the DM, it's fine. The player wants it? What kind of monster are you? Of course you should fix it for him!" would be among the FIRST to cry foul at any other kind of DM fiat/handwaving decision that was NOT in the PCs' interests.
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No, you don't get to just be the same as a "normal elf". You're not the same...you're, by your own choice, not a "normal elf." You wanted to be drow..If you want to be the same, then this charcoal skin and white hair is obviously not necessary and we'll just remove all that drow magic stuff, since you apparently only want to be drow when its convenient.
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PS: HAPPY [U.S.A.] THANKSGIVING EVERYBODY!!!

Happy turkey day

Around page 2 or 3 (edit: or in reality, at the bottom of 4!) I realized you guys aren't psychic and weren't answering the question I'd meant to ask. I agree, the ointment is a pretty keen solution; I say as much in my OP (okay, I spell it "drug or potion", but we're talking about the same thing: by making the workaround dependent on an in-game supply and dealing with its consequences, the character generates plot).

I rephrased my question to "in game, why not goggles?", because from a DM point of view, I already agree with you. Waving one's hands and removing a drawback is no fun, it feels unearned, because it is unearned. But by the same token, my GM side says it should work. Goggles help people function in bright light situations. The burden of proof is on why it isn't worthwhile, though there's no antagonism here, we're brainstorming (and there's a fair bit of contribution upthread I've found really helpful).

On that topic of mundane gear getting around racial drawbacks, plenty of mundane gear approximates racial features. Antivenin makes you a pseudo-dwarf. Lanterns give you the world's least sneaky darkvision. 10' poles workaround your stubby arms, climbing kits your lack of spiderclimb, earplugs make you an elf with respect to language-based charms.
Okay, not all of my examples duplicate literal racial features, but you know what I mean, I hope.

So the player is not being unreasonable (though I can sew you have a strongly held opinion here!). He is risking being unfun, but I only game with fun people, and we would all prefer a cool answer to an unfun one. I hope this has given you a better read on my position here.

@travathain and [MENTION=6777505]Joe Liker[/MENTION] asked why the surface isn't awash in drow: good question. If goggles work, it really should be, assuming the drow want to claim all of the surface (not just elven citadels or something).
Something very like that question is why I started this thread!

So: why don't goggles work?
Not "what are the consequences" (I've considered them, they've been expounded upthread) and not "am I doing it wrong?" (I... Don't think so? ).

Fwiw, I think I got an answer that works for me from a combination of [MENTION=2067]Kamikaze Midget[/MENTION]'s post and a few others: goggles work but are expensive and necessarily block peripheral vision; even the perfect ones completely replace the "sunlight sensitivity" trait with "Restricted Vision: disadvantage on wisdom (perception) checks and a -2 penalty to AC".
Poor-but-cheap goggles make everything beyond 60' obscured.
Slit goggles are, like, 1 gp and can be crafted to be indestructible, but make everything beyond 15' obscured.
Magical versions completely remove the penalty.

So for me, the goggles work, but the tradeoff is generally not worth it. But a "peaceful" drow envoy probably would wear goggles (or, because it's cooler, a mask) while on the surface.

(If D&D did "fragile" better I'd do that too. Reminds me of a plan I've got to talk about tying gear maintenance to long rests; I'll start a thread on that in a bit but it's definitely house rule-y )

 

[Cannyjiggit]

If you're fine to use an "alchemical" or magical method and want a reasoning for goggles not to work, then quite simply you couls rule that they do block enough light to stop the sensitivity but also block the darkvision which means they are effectively trying to see combat as a human would through these thick dark goggles which block so much of the light that they impose disadvantage themselves and in lowlight conditions, effectively impose blindness. Thus goggles would remove disadvantage due to sensitivity but replace it with disadvantage for "darkness".
You could let the player discover this in the "plot" to find his eventual solution

 

[I'm A Banana]

goggles work but are expensive and necessarily block peripheral vision; even the perfect ones completely replace the "sunlight sensitivity" trait with "Restricted Vision: disadvantage on wisdom (perception) checks and a -2 penalty to AC".
Poor-but-cheap goggles make everything beyond 60' obscured.
Slit goggles are, like, 1 gp and can be crafted to be indestructible, but make everything beyond 15' obscured.
Magical versions completely remove the penalty.

I like it.

And I like the aesthetics of drow envoys wearing slit goggles to protect themselves from bright sunlight. Very cool visual.

 

[MechaPilot]

(Maybe this belongs in Homebrew? Not sure!)
My question: what can the enterprising DM do to encourage players away from the stable, sure-bet that are the fantasy sunglasses represented by option (1)?

You could always have them break when the PC is critically hit, or when the PC fails some kind of athletic skill/ability check by five or more.

 

[eryndel]

So: why don't goggles work?
Not "what are the consequences" (I've considered them, they've been expounded upthread) and not "am I doing it wrong?" (I... Don't think so? ).

Fwiw, I think I got an answer that works for me from a combination of [MENTION=2067]Kamikaze Midget[/MENTION]'s post and a few others: goggles work but are expensive and necessarily block peripheral vision; even the perfect ones completely replace the "sunlight sensitivity" trait with "Restricted Vision: disadvantage on wisdom (perception) checks and a -2 penalty to AC".
Poor-but-cheap goggles make everything beyond 60' obscured.
Slit goggles are, like, 1 gp and can be crafted to be indestructible, but make everything beyond 15' obscured.
Magical versions completely remove the penalty.

So for me, the goggles work, but the trade off is generally not worth it. But a "peaceful" drow envoy probably would wear goggles (or, because it's cooler, a mask) while on the surface.

(If D&D did "fragile" better I'd do that too. Reminds me of a plan I've got to talk about tying gear maintenance to long rests; I'll start a thread on that in a bit but it's definitely house rule-y )

For me, I have to side with the folks stating that Sunlight Sensitivity is one of the defining characteristics of being a drow. Someone who doesn't want to play with that, is not really looking at playing a drow. If I were feeling generous, I'd even posit that Drizz't's "getting over" sunlight sensitivity was a metaphor for his abandonment of Drow society, but this isn't Lit Analysis class.

To answer the question, why goggles don't work... you need to really look at what is causing the sunlight sensitivity in the first place. Three reasons come to mind:

• Physiological - Drow eyes and skin are built differently and more susceptible to sunlight.
• Psychological - Exile from the surface and millennium spent underground have created a pathological anxiety of the surface
• Magical/Mystical - The gods themselves have cursed the drow who venture up to the surface.

For Drow in my campaign, the causes of Sunlight Sensitivity are a combination of all three. Goggles, at best, can mitigate part (eye concerns) of the Physiological aspect of the drawback. If in your campaign, the drow curse has any psychological or mystical component... goggles would be worthless.

Finally, even if drow curse is really just about bright lights, for me colored lenses is just not a powerful enough solution. I have (diagnosed) light sensitivity, for which sunglasses really help me drive and do other things on particularly bright days. I've had friends on the albinism spectrum who's issues are orders of magnitude worse than mine. For them, really dark sunglasses can help, but they can't completely fix the discomfort they have. I could see a solution more like the Inuit snow goggles, which are surprisingly effective, but have a whole set of other drawbacks to contend with. Therefore, for me, even if it was just a fact of drow eye physiology that they received disadvantage in full sunlight, I can't imagine a way that simple colored lenses would fix it, any more than I could see a vampire slapping on SPF 50 sunblock to go for an mid-morning stroll.

Of course, your mileage may vary.

 

[Lackhand]

... Finally, even if drow curse is really just about bright lights, for me colored lenses is just not a powerful enough solution. I have (diagnosed) light sensitivity, for which sunglasses really help me drive and do other things on particularly bright days. I've had friends on the albinism spectrum who's issues are orders of magnitude worse than mine. For them, really dark sunglasses can help, but they can't completely fix the discomfort they have. I could see a solution more like the Inuit snow goggles, which are surprisingly effective, but have a whole set of other drawbacks to contend with. Therefore, for me, even if it was just a fact of drow eye physiology that they received disadvantage in full sunlight, I can't imagine a way that simple colored lenses would fix it ...

I'm a little confused, but I don't want to be too intrusive, so... Y'know, please take that into account.

Should I read this as saying that the goggles would be helpful, but completely removing the penalty is going too far? If we assume disadvantage in 5e is analagous to a -5 in earlier editions, am I right in assuming you'd still impose a -1 or -2 or so, with optics on?

I kind of agree, actually, but I feel like a smaller, more situational, floating modifier isn't worth implementing to me, so I'd "round up" how effective welder's goggles function at their primary task (letting the wearer attack and see things they're concentrating on seeing) with the AC penalty and "cosmetic" wis(perc) disadv balancing it out.

Thanks for the advice!

(On the topic of SPF 50, I think it depends on how vampires/sunlight interact, as you alluded to with drow/sunlight interaction. I don't like to assume Vampires suffer from UV radiation, I like to assume it's a spiritual thing. But I also like the visual of Spike (from Buffy the Vampire Slayer) driving in a blacked-out old car under a tarp. So perhaps my taste is questionable And I think you're right, I DO assume drow/sunlight is purely optical).

 

[eryndel]

If I were to consider sunlight sensitivity in drow to be purely optical, I would consider it much more severe my own light sensitivity. Some of the other suggestions in this thread regarding the slitted goggles could be useful, but I agree, it's trading an easy to handle drawback (disadvantage) with something more fiddly and nuanced, and probably doesn't really improve gameplay. If you're looking for a reason for goggles not to work in your game (in lieu of more mystical rituals and/or drugs), I'd continue to suggest it's more the physiological.

That said, this is 5e. Alternatively, you can always draw up a background (Surface Pariah). Balance the efforts to mitigate the sensitivity within the initial background and/or the background skill proficiencies and features. Maybe even give them Tool Proficiency: Sun Shades, or something similar to represent adjustment to the conditions on the surface.

For me, I'm perfectly fine in my Realms games keeping it more than just ocular. It doesn't matter to me how sorry Drizz't is for the crimes of his people, the drow were cursed by the Seldarine after all.

 

[True_Blue]

I've finally figured out what bothered me so much about the light sensitivity. The drow race is a PHB race that is put in the core book to be used by players. No other race has a penalty like the Drow do. Halflings can only move 25 feet, etc, but nothing that impacts combat as much as what disadvantage does. And unless a whole campaign is catered to being done underground, or some other theme, it is likely there will be a good amount of battles in sunlight.

This is not a race that some person thumbed through the Monster Manual and said hey that would be cool, can you make up some stats for it, and oh by the way, i don't want the penalties. Its a race that is put there for the PC's to use in the Player's Handbook, and thus should not have such a huge negative for people to play as. I realize that to some people it *is* a monster race, but in the PHB its a valid race to pick and should be on par with the other races.

With such a stark disadvantage, its hard for me to really think many people will play a drow. If I took the sunlight sensitivity away, I think it would get played as much as all of the other races. So I really don't see any harm in just taking it away. I know at my table I wouldn't see a huge influx of people starting to play a drow because it was so powerful. Instead, it would be on par with all of the other races, except now it actually is an option for people to use.

It just seems silly to me to have such a race in the PHB for people to choose, that has such a disadvantage in combat. I think it either should have been written as a race in the PHB without such a harsh negative, or it should have been left out and considered an optional "monster" race. Since it *is* in the PHB, I want to allow people who do want to play it, to do so without such a harsh penalty to combat.

While classes can have some negatives to features they have, I don't believe any of them have such a common occurrence as disadvantage in sunlight. In my campaigns this would happen all the time, and I think is just too harsh as a PC race in the PHB.

I also don't see any point in fixing the problem by creating some special glasses or something else just to mitigate the problem, so that I can say "well yeah they have this disadvantage, but each drow PC has this special way to get around it". I might as well just take away the sunlight sensitivity in the first place.

Again, I think that for a lot of people they do see the Drow as a monster race, and this is them kind of keeping it that way. I dig it, but for me since its in the PHB and I think it should be on par with the other races and I actually want it to be playable since I know people will see it and want to play as one, the easiest and best thing for me is to just take it away.

 

[Quartz]

I can't agree. Would you give humans darkvision if you were running an underdark campaign? Of course not.

 

[77IM]

Humans can buy lanterns and torches. This whole thread is a debate over whether drow can buy sunglasses.