D&D 5E Drow "Sunlight Sensitivity" workarounds?

[True_Blue]

I can't agree. Would you give humans darkvision if you were running an underdark campaign? Of course not.

To me this doesn't make any sense because a Human can buy torches that they then use underground. They can't sneak up on anybody, and there's a certain radius they can see to, and not beyond that, but when they start fighting, as long as things are in the torchlight, humans have no problems.

Unless you give drow "darkness torches", or goggles, or anything else, the drow as a race is pretty screwed in daylight. Its just such a huge disadvantage that I don't think of it as really practical.

I don't see any point in giving the drow some kind of goggles that let them see in daylight without a penalty, but gives them some other penalty. At that point, the drow write up might as well have that secondary penalty and not light sensitivity since every drow PC will be given those goggles somehow.

Again, I'll re-iterate that I really dont think taking light sensitivity away from the drow race would make them somehow more powerful that a lot of people would now choose drow over all of the other races. Instead, I really think they would be used about the same as the other races, instead of a lot less because there aren't many people I know who would want to deal with light sensitivity. If that is your goal, and you *don't" want people to play as a drow, then I get it. They are basically a "monster" race. With it actually being in the PHB though, that's now how I think of it, and I want someone to viably be able to play any race in the PHB without a huge penalty.

 

[77IM]

My main concern is the effect on group dynamics. Remember when somebody showed up playing a druid character whose sole goal was to protect their sacred grove so they didn't want to leave to go on adventures? Remember that time the DM had a cool heist adventure planned, but the holier-than-thou paladin couldn't participate because it would violate their oath? I've heard of rangers who only wanted to fight their favored enemy and were overpowered when doing so. The OP has observed that the drow character is punished for adventuring outdoors in the day, and I'd be worried that when the group debates "Where should we go next?" this could cause tension.

If someone wanted to play a merfolk, would you make that race overpowered in the water but sucky on land? Heck no, most adventures take place on land. You'd give them some ability to grow legs (maybe a "fins to legs" cantrip) and make them reasonably balanced on land with a slight advantage in the water.

Superior darkvision isn't that helpful; it's uncommon for underground passages to be larger than 60 feet (not unheard-of, of course, but not frequent enough for superior darkvision to be such a big deal). So it's a slight advantage. But disadvantage on all attacks and Perception checks is pretty huge.

Obviously if you're running an underdark campaign this doesn't matter and drow are fine, just like in an underwater campaign a merfolk PC would be fine. In the games I play a LOT of encounters take place outdoors in broad daylight, and sucking at them doesn't sound like a fun trade-off. That's why I think it's better to find a different sort of trade-off -- so the drow still has a penalty to deal with, but not such a penalty that they are discouraged from participating.

 

[S_Dalsgaard]

There are plenty of innate spell abilities that can be removed to compensate for normal sight in daylight

 

[Kobold Stew]

I'll admit I do not identify with any of the examples you bring up. Let's just take one, though.

If someone wanted to play a merfolk, would you make that race overpowered in the water but sucky on land? Heck no, most adventures take place on land.

Heck yes. The person has chosen to play a menfolk -- why wouldn't they be weaker on land? This seems to me to miss the entire point of playing a menfolk. What is the player thinking if they want to play a menfolk but don't want to rp the consequences of that?

As steel dragons said back in post 6, players should be prepared to deal with the restrictions that they, themselves have chosen for their character.

Superior darkvision isn't that helpful; it's uncommon for underground passages to be larger than 60 feet (not unheard-of, of course, but not frequent enough for superior darkvision to be such a big deal). So it's a slight advantage. But disadvantage on all attacks and Perception checks is pretty huge.

Except that it's not disadvantage on all attacks, as you know.

If superior darkvision isn't that helpful (in your opinion), then the player should be prepared to lose it. And, in my opinion, any other darkness-related features as well. That's what I suggested upthread.

 

[the Jester]

...not everything comes down to balance when interesting, creative ideas improve role play.

One of the biggest lessons about game design learned from 2e was that balancing mechanical advantages with roleplaying penalties simply does not work for most tables, and is terrible design. Notice how the only place in 3e or later you see it attempted is in the widely-panned, terrible, broken, unbalanced Book of Exalted Deeds- you know, the book that made poison that wasn't poison so good guys could use it?

 

[the Jester]

Humans can buy lanterns and torches. This whole thread is a debate over whether drow can buy sunglasses.

That's a rather complete oversimplification, though.

It's not just about buying sunglasses. It's about whether sunglasses will work. It's about whether allowing a 1 gp purchase (or whatever you want to charge) to overcome a defining feature, and a defining balancing factor, in a race is a good idea. It's about whether Drow sunlight sensitivity is all about the eyes or whether there's a skin factor, a divine judgment factor, etc. involved.

It is certainly not just about whether Drow can buy sunglasses.

 

[the Jester]

If someone wanted to play a merfolk, would you make that race overpowered in the water but sucky on land? Heck no, most adventures take place on land. You'd give them some ability to grow legs (maybe a "fins to legs" cantrip) and make them reasonably balanced on land with a slight advantage in the water.

Speak for yourself. If someone wanted to play a merfolk- and if I wasn't running an aquatic campaign- I'd point out that they would be pretty darn useless, and they'd be far better off playing a more viable race. I wouldn't bend over backwards to make merfolk 'balanced on land' any more than I'd work out lots of extra bennies to let a player play a squirrel.

Not all options are equal, nor are they equally valid choices for a campaign- nor should they be.

YMMV.

 

[77IM]

Heck yes. The person has chosen to play a menfolk -- why wouldn't they be weaker on land? This seems to me to miss the entire point of playing a menfolk. What is the player thinking if they want to play a menfolk but don't want to rp the consequences of that?

As steel dragons said back in post 6, players should be prepared to deal with the restrictions that they, themselves have chosen for their character.

Your understanding of basic human nature is different than mine. People -- even otherwise smart ones -- routinely make really bad decisions by not thinking things through and not understanding what will and won't make them happy.

I'm sure the player in the OP's example expected sunlight sensitivity to be a problem occasionally. Their expectations appear not to have been met. The "it's your responsibility, you deal with it" attitude is a great idea when people are asking too much of you, but asking the DM to make some adjustment seems fine.

If superior darkvision isn't that helpful (in your opinion), then the player should be prepared to lose it. And, in my opinion, any other darkness-related features as well. That's what I suggested upthread.

I like your suggestion a lot.

I actually think darkness at 5th level is a bit overpowered anyway. If the drow's great spellcasting is balanced by sunlight sensitivity, does that mean drow are way overpowered in an underdark campaign? I guess this is like wondering if clerics are overpowered in an undead-heavy campaign.

 

[True_Blue]

That's a rather complete oversimplification, though.

It's not just about buying sunglasses. It's about whether sunglasses will work. It's about whether allowing a 1 gp purchase (or whatever you want to charge) to overcome a defining feature, and a defining balancing factor, in a race is a good idea. It's about whether Drow sunlight sensitivity is all about the eyes or whether there's a skin factor, a divine judgment factor, etc. involved.

Sunlight Sensitivity is definitely a defining feature, in that it really cuts down the amount of people who would actually play the race in most campaigns.

As to it being a defining balancing factor, I just don't agree. For something to be called a "defining balancing factor", it would mean that if the race did not have this disadvantage, the race would be broken and more players would gravitate to it in order to power pack, or just plain be better than the other players. I just don't see that. If I take away Sunlight Sensitivity, I can't conceive of any way that all of a sudden people's campaigns, and the message boards, would be flooded with DM's complaining about how broken the drow race is, and how people are playing that race more than anything else because of it being just plain better. The racial spell abilities the drow get are pretty cool, but not so cool that people would more often than not play a drow over a human who gets a feat, dwarves who get armor proficiency, half-elves with their good ability points, etc. I mean, I know 120' darkvision is pretty neat, but I agree with a poster above that it actually would rarely come up in most cases in my campaign because a lot of times the characters are in cramped corridors or areas you can only see so far ahead anyways without turns and twists. I'm not saying its *never* a benefit, but not anything earht shattering.

I mean, do people really think a drow without sunlight sensitivity is all of a sudden *really* good and will ruin campaigns, or make other characters who don't play drow not fun, or cause headaches for the DM?

I really think its something separate, and most people just see the sunlight sensitivity as a defining trait of a drow. In reading about drow over the years thats been something that has been part of their schtick, and to see that go away just seems weird. I really think thats why its included in the first place, its some kind of homage to how drow are, so they knew they wanted to add the drow race, but also knew that in the past they always had sunlight sensitivity, so they kept it as a disadvantage. But in doing so, they created the *only* race in the PHB with that harsh of a penalty that literally cuts down on the number of people who are willing to play it. They would have been better off not even having it in the PHB at that point. PHB races should all be usable without any severe disadvantages, in my opinion. It just makes sense that people can pick up the Player's Handbook and pick a race without having such a harsh penalty in combat and trying to jump through hoops.

 

[Uchawi]

Just a bad mechanic for a very popular race. Otherwise, just give the race a flat -2 in sunlight. I never understood disadvantage or advantage for environmental factors. Those should be constants.