Eadric et. al. (The Paladin and his Friends).

[Broccli_Head]

On Mulissu....

No wonder Graz'zt's minions had to turn tail!

How does one have a +66 skill? I have the ELH butI guess I haven't read far enough?

 

[Cheiromancer]

I have lots of problems with the epic spell system. I wish the whole thing could be reworked.

But if you are using it, might as well take advantage of the loopholes. Something the example spells don't do- they do things the hard way. Not the way someone with a 28 Intelligence and a 66 spellcraft would do it. (BTW Broccli_Head- the ring of spellcraftiness is what gives Mulissu that extra +30)

For instance, she should increase the dice size up to d20 (+40 DC) and add only +10d6 to the damage (+20 DC). This gives 20d20 (avg 210 hp damage, 105 on a save) instead of 40d6 (140 damage, 70 on a save).

 

[Sepulchrave II]

For instance, she should increase the dice size up to d20 (+40 DC) and add only +10d6 to the damage (+20 DC). This gives 20d20 (avg 210 hp damage, 105 on a save) instead of 40d6 (140 damage, 70 on a save).

Good point, and, actually the kind of "whoomph" I was expecting from a DC69 spell.

So much of the epic spell system is intuitive - not a bad thing, necessarily, and it kind of encourages the DM to be conscious of possible abuses and/or failures to exploit the system to a reasonable degree. But I feel that it might put too much responsibility on the DM - and its not often that I say that. The possibilities for game-breaking spells are actually just as staggering as poorly developed ones.

E.g., another one, proposed by Dan.

Aeon of Dolor

Conjuration (Summoning) [Chaotic, Evil]
Spellcraft DC: 70
Components: V, S
Casting Time: 1 day 11 minutes
Range: 75 ft.
Effect: One summoned Balor
Duration: Permanent (D)
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance: No
To Develop: 630,000 gp; 13 days; 25,200 XP. Seed: summon (DC14). Factors: summon CR18 creature (+32 DC), permanent duration (x5). Mitigating factors: increase casting time by 10 minutes (-20 DC), increase casting time by 1 day (-2 DC), Burn 1000 XP (-10 DC).


I'm generally OK with this: it feels about right for a DC 70 spell. But what kind of criterion is that?

If he'd milked the system: say, extended the casting time to 10 days instead of burning 1000XP, the adjusted Spellcraft DC of the spell would be 20. Of course, it would be just as easy to reduce it to 0.

By the rules, DC 0 = no cost, no time, no XP to develop.


But at what point is this unreasonable? DC 20? 30? 50? Is a DC of 70 too high or too low? Who knows?

 

[Cheiromancer]

Well, I'm really still thinking this through, but I suspect the cost and time to develop should be *before* mitigating factors are applied. Mitigating factors could be in it so that it is possible to cast the durn thing.

I have a question:

Do summoned creatures have an independent existence? Take a horn of Valhalla- they look like real barbarians, but they are just magical constructions. Is it the same for summoned demons and stuff, or are they really snatched away from whatever they are doing?

And what about pseudonatural creatures (either the regular kind, or the epic kind)? Is there a really a parallel universe out there (waaay out there) that has pseudonatural analogues of all the familiar critters, or do the Others merely assume the form of more or less ordinary creatures?

p.s. I'm going to go and check right now, but I would think that the x5 is *before* the mitigating factors are applied. If not, they should be.

p.p.s Yep, they are. Check out Verdigris Tsunami

 

[Sepulchrave II]

Check out Verdigris Tsunami

That was the basis for my assumption that the mitigating factors are applied before the x5 for permanency: the increase in radius (20 ft. to 1000 ft., +196 DC) would mean that the Spellcraft DC for this would be 1258 otherwise.

If the mitigators are applied before the adjustment for permanency, you get (21 +2 +196 +8 +19 +60 -18 -100 -154) x5 = 170, which is the DC for the spell.

Same goes for Origin of Species: Achaierai.

If not, they should be.

That, I do agree with. Intuitively, it makes much more sense.


I'm afraid that the system is basically shot.

Do summoned creatures have an independent existence? Take a horn of Valhalla- they look like real barbarians, but they are just magical constructions. Is it the same for summoned demons and stuff, or are they really snatched away from whatever they are doing?

I think both, and neither. A summoned creature is really there to the extent that it has a memory of what transpires (e.g. Mialee's Formians, or Demons being reluctant to Summon others of their kind because it leaves them beholden), but it is somehow lacking the completeness(?) of a called creature. Its "vital essence," maybe, is missing. This would explain its temporary soujourn on the Prime, and the fact that if it is killed, it is not permanently destroyed.

Of course, with Permanent summonings, this bates the question "so where is the creature's essence?" Who knows? Perhaps wizards have mindless arguments ad nauseum about this kind of thing...

And what about pseudonatural creatures (either the regular kind, or the epic kind)? Is there a really a parallel universe out there (waaay out there) that has pseudonatural analogues of all the familiar critters, or do the Others merely assume the form of more or less ordinary creatures?

I can't speak for others, but I've always felt that absolutely anything is possible in the Far Realms. Maybe it is the Wizard who determines the form that these things take, through his force of Will.

But I like the mysterious, inexplicable stuff, and I might be talking out of my arse.

 

[Peskara]

Mulissu

Thanks for posting Mulissu's stats. She's my favorite NPC.

I hope Mostin hasn't gotten her into very much trouble with the lower-planar types, but I'm looking forward to finding out, either way.

 

[Knight Otu]

To quote from the ELH, page 89:

3. Those [factors] that reduce the Spellcraft DC rather than increasing it. ... To calculate the final Spellcraft DC of an epic level spell correctly, it's important to determine the mitigating factors last, after all the factors that increase the DC have been accounted for.

The spells in the ELH possibly used an earlier draft of the rules and weren't updated accordingly.

 

[grodog]

* bump *

Perhaps a little attention here, may result in some of Dan's spells for Mostin showing up?

 

[grodog]

Mostin's/Dave's spells?

Hey Sep,

Any chance you'll be able to get Dave to resend you that file of spells while we're waiting for your second post in the Rape of Morne?

 

[Sepulchrave II]

Grace Touches Eadric

Paragon Human Male Paladin 15 / Divine Disciple 2; medium sized humanoid (human); HD 15d10+2d8 + 198 + 181; hps 545; Init +8 (+8 Dex); Speed 60 ft; AC 57 (+1 Dex, +12 Armour, +5 Shield, +12 Insight, +12 Luck, +5 Natural); Attack: BAB: +16/+11/+6/+1; +58/+53/+48/+43 (Magical Bastard Sword + Belt); Dmg: 1d10+36 (15-20/x2) (Magical Bastard Sword). SV Fort +38, Ref +28, Will +33; AL LG; Str 33 (39), Dex 27, Con 33, Int 27, Wis 31, Cha 37.

Languages: Common, Celestial

Skills: Ride +33, Knowledge (Religion) +26, Knowledge (Nobility) +25, Diplomacy +47, Handle Animal +28, Perform +31 (Ballad, Ode, Lute, Dance), Knowledge (History) +25, Sense Motive +24.

Feats: Exotic Weapon Proficiency (Bastard Sword), Power Attack, Mounted Combat, Ride-by-Attack, Spirited Charge, Weapon Focus (Bastard Sword), Improved Critical (Bastard Sword), Epic Skill Focus (Diplomacy), Epic Reputation.

Special Abilities: Detect Evil at will (28th), Divine Grace, Lay on Hands (390hp/day), Divine Health, Aura of Courage, Smite Evil (1/day, +15 dmg), Remove Disease (10/week), Turn Undead (as CLE 13, 8/day). Strength Domain Power (1/day: +17 to Str for 1 round). Divine Emissary (Telepathy w/ LG celestials in 60 ft.), Sacred Defense +1, DR 20/+6, SR 39, Fire and Cold Resistance 10. 3/day: Haste, Greater Dispelling, See Invisibility.

Spells: -/3/3/2/1. Prepared spells vary, but usually include "Holy Sword." Plus Strength domain spells: Endure Elements, Bull’s Strength, Magic Vestment, Spell Immunity.

Magic Items:
"Lukarn." LG Keen Sunblade (Bastard Sword) +2, +4 vs Evil Creatures. Double Damage vs. Undead. Int 14, Wis 17, Cha 15. Semiempathy. 1 x Extraordinary Ability: Heal 1/day. Special Purpose: Slay Chaotic Evil Creatures. Special Purpose Power: Confusion. Lukarn has an Ego of 20.
"The Skin of Sarth." +4 Full Plate Armour of Invulnerability.
"Melimpor's Iron Girdle." Belt of Giant Strength +6.
"Melimpor's Shield." A Large +3 Shield of Blinding.
"Kirm." Heavy +2 Dragonbane Lance.
3 Javelins of Lightning
4 Potions of Cure Serious Wounds; 2 Potions of Haste.

34 Years. 190 lbs. 6’1"