[ELH] Monk: My fists are useless!

[Cloudgatherer]

While creating 26th level adventures for the Epic Level Adventure in the ELH, my fellow PC was a monk who wanted to use his fists. Unfortunately, monks get a very limited number of feats, and spending all of them on Ki Strike improvements didn't sound like a winner to him. So the DM allowed "Gloves of butt-kicking" which allowed the monk to strike as if he had a +6 enhancement bonus on his fists.

Is this really how the Epic Level Monk has to do this? Even at non-epic levels, the monk has this nifty ability called ki strike, yet on its own is very weak and does nearly nothing for the monk at almost any given level.

Why is this ability here if no one uses it? Does the ability have a chance of working on its own? I tend to view the monk as a prestige class, but when a DMG arcane archer can get up to +10 arrows before hitting level 30 as a class feature, and the monk can only strike at an effect +3, I have to wonder.....

 

[Shalewind]

It's a good point.

I think the power balance in the game is always provied by magic after a certain point, usually by magic items. But the monk is lacking objects such as the "gloves of butt-kicking".

Personally I think it's a good magical item addition. If the fighter needs that Sword of Heaven Rending, then the Monk should have his Tiger Fist Punch gloves. True, the monk is a little more versatile, but to survive in Epic worlds you gotta have more bang for your punch.

And ki-strike sucks... Flat out. Sure, if the monk was alone it might come in handy, but in my experience the fighters have always outdone the DR creatures before the Monk has gotten his go at them.

As to if that is how the EHL intended it? I'm not sure. What does the Template for "Standard" Epic Monks have them with. (at work, don't have the book with me.)

Any one else?

 

[cybernetic]

The Ki Strike ability only allows the monk to hit a monster with Damage Redutcion unarmed...it doesn't add to attack rolls or damage dealt...its a mechanic to allow the monk to hit creatures with DR without having to give up there unarmed attacks by using a weapon...

as far as the thing about the arcane archer....he may be able to get +10 arrows...but a 20th level monk can strike a creature DR ?/+3 for 5 attacks at 1d20+str mod EACH! unarmed....



and Monks aren't necessarily supposed to be tanks...they are more support characters than anything else...

when your that high as a monk you have other skills...and you have the option of improved Ki Strike...and then enchanted monk weapons....but you have to realize...just because you can't hit for damage does not mean you can't "hit it"....

a 25th level monk with a Wis Mod or +3 can't hit the DR 50/+5....but can quivering palm it with a save DC 37......no damage...but it still dies

or Stunning attack it every round for the with the same save DC....and his friends can wack away at a stunned DR 50/+5 creature with their +10 vorpal greatswords of you ar F----d

 

[Cloudgatherer]

The Ki Strike ability only allows the monk to hit a monster with Damage Redutcion unarmed...it doesn't add to attack rolls or damage dealt...its a mechanic to allow the monk to hit creatures with DR without having to give up there unarmed attacks by using a weapon...

This is kind of my point. The intention of the ability is to obviously strike creatures with DR. HOWEVER, examine when the monk gets +1 (or +2 or +3) ki strike and compare to the level of a cleric/wizard casting greater magic weapon and the creatures of equivalent CR in the MM. There is no contest here, the monk even with his ki strike cannot penetrate the DR of an equivalent CR creature, yet the fighter with magic sword, or the cleric casting GMW can.

It just makes the ability useless. Can anyone "make it work" using core rulebooks? Core + ELH? Anything? (Different teirs here)

Personally, I was hoping Ki Strike increased in strength at Epic levels, yet the monk must take feats to increase its strength, and monks get the fewest feats of anyone. IMO, that just is not right.

 

[DerianCypher]

Well, there already are rules for giving monks an upgrade to their unarmed attack. Unfortunatly, it is incredibly expensive

bonus^2 * 6000gp

is the formula for making an item that upgrades a natrual weapon, IIRC.

DC

 

[ConcreteBuddha]

What about the Amulet in the Sword and Fist?

 

[CRGreathouse]

The epic feat Penetrate Damage Reduction stacks with ki strike and Improved Ki Strike.

 

[Pax]

Better solution.

Magic of Faerun magic item, Bracers of Striking. They normallyonly grant the use of Improved Unarmed Strike, in their default, base form. But here's the catch: they can be enchanted with all the +'s and enhancements available to normal weapons (at double cost, as though they were a double-weapon ... and yes both "ends" DO have to maatch, inthis one case).

So Sure-Striking Bracers of Ghost Touch, +1 would cost 37,310gp (the market price of the bracers themselves is 1,310gp, plus 18,000 for a +3 market-value weapon enhancement on each "end" of the resultant double-weapon).

The item can be found on page 155 of Magic of Faerun, and is an absolute GODSEND for monks. With the above-described item, the Monk blows through non-epic DR, tags noncorporeal foes with ease,and gets a slight boost to damage.

Ither suggested enhancements:

Impact, also from MoF; does for bludgeoning weapons what Keen does for cutting and piercing weapons. +1 bonus.

Jumping, MoF again; acts as Ring of Feather Falling, and, every other round grants a +30 Jump Bonus (note, this woudl be PER END, so, essentially the +30 jump would be continuous!). Flat add of 13,750gp (per "end").

OF NOTE: since it is still hte hands that strike, the Bracers don't need the "Ki Focus" enhancement from Sword and Fist, at all!

 

[Petrosian]

There is no contest here, the monk even with his ki strike cannot penetrate the DR of an equivalent CR creature, yet the fighter with magic sword, or the cleric casting GMW can.

IIRC, the number of beasties requiring more than +3 to hit was very very few. The number of beasties requiring more than +2 was a little more numerous. The monk gets +2 by 12th iirc.

While our monk has occasionally run int problems with Dr, so have the archers and other characters.

MOST "character" adversaries do not have DR. In my game usually 1/2 to 3/4 of the adversaries are characters, not monsters. Is your game different? talk to your GM.

Spells such as magic fang and greater magic fang can be great help too. They are both legal potions and are both under the 3000 gold limit for commonly available items.

if all else fails, the amulet of mighty fists from sword and fist is a item to counter it, similarly to how the fighter counters it with his item.

 

[The Cardinal]

solution: Monk 8 / Cleric 2 / Sacred Fist 10 + X levels Epic SF