So what difference does it make if the variable component of Alice the monk's attacks is a smaller range than Bob the fighter's if Alice makes more attacks that each carry the static component to a similar or even greater aggregate? What difference does it make if the resulting totals are equal or even greater?I was specifically discussing unarmed damage and how it sucks that you can't really kick ass as an unarmed combatant as a monk.
Have you not read how the martial arts ability works? I believe the example even included the relevant section.But your examples didn't do that. Your examples were using a weapon.
hold on, let me fix these for you:
- Greatsword 16 str L1: 7+3=10
- Greatsword 20 str L5:2*(7+5)=24
- +1 Greatsword 20 str L11: 3*(7+5)=39
- +1 Greatsword 20 str L20:4*(7+5)=52
"...
You can use Dexterity instead of Strength for the
attack and damage rolls of your unarmed strikes and
monk weapons.
...
You can roll a d4 in place of the normal damage
o f your unarm ed strike or monk weapon. This die
changes as you gain monk levels, as shown in the
Martial Arts column of the Monk table.
...
W hen you use the Attack action with an unarmed
strike or a monk weapon on your turn, you can make
one unarmed strike as a bonus action."
- quarterstaff 16 dex L1: (2.5+3)+(3.5+3)=12 & 1 Ki/long or short rest <- This is more than the fighter at this level
- Quarterstaff 18 dex L5:2*(3.5+5)+3.5+5=27.5 & 5 Ki/long or short rest <- This too is more than the fighter at this level
- +1 Quarterstaff 20 dex L11: 2*(4.5+5)+4.5+5=35.5 &11 Ki/long or short rest <-- an average DPR that is four whole points behind that of the fighter.
- +1 Quarterstaff 20 dex L20:2*(5.5+5)+5.5+5=38.5 &20 Ki/long or short rest <-- 13.5 points behind the fighter but assuming the expected 2 short rests/long rest it should have 60 points of Ki for flurry or stunning strike. How could anyone manage with only sixty ki when they need to ration a mere 7-10 points each of the expected 6-8 encounters?
If we compare it to other martials though it doesn't fit. Almost all martials start the game with a 1d8 damage and some defense (shield), or 2d6 if they want to commit to high offense. However, there damage generally only scales through more attacks, there are very few true "straight damage buffs" except through a few subclasses.
Well, actually, most martials gain a straight bonus to damage when leveling up, on top of extra attacks (Barbs gain a static bonus to damage while raging, which, at higher levels, is "always", and Paladins get Improved Divine Smite at level 11. Fighters are the exception, but they do get two more instances of Extra Attack, at level 11 and 15, and even rogues get scaling damage in the form of Sneak Attack dices, while monks, if you take away the scaling portion of MA, stop scaling at level 5.)
nice way of obfuscating your "correction", I did find it amusing being asked if an example showing extra attack plus the free MA third attack was "completely forgetting" that monks get extra attack. Martial arts is a first level ability. I made the lists using only MA. The quarterstaff was being used one handed because I read the MA entry where it forbids using it two handed for that no ki use BA attack, I didn't expect I needed to quote that part of the MA entry in a discussion about monks. If it were being used two handed there would be no second attack at level 1 & no third attack at level 5+ . Your "corrections" seem to omit the martial arts no ki spend extra bonus action attack & accompanying +dex to damage making their math fall apart. Perhaps that explains why we keep hearing about terribad monk damage when they aren't forced to use flurry.hold on, let me fix these for you:
- Greatsword 16 str L1: 7+3=10
- Greatsword 20 str L5:2*(7+4)=22
- +1 Greatsword 20 str L11: 3*(7+6)=39 (the math here was right, you just put 5 instead of 6)
- +1 Greatsword 20 str L20:4*(7+6)=52 (ditto)
got the last examples wrong on my first go but that should be fixed now
- quarterstaff 16 dex L1: (2.5+3)+(3.5+3)=12 - ki is a 2nd level class feature. also, is there a reason why you aren't 2-handing the quarterstaff? we can get our damage up to (2.5+3)+(4.5+3) = 13 if we do. decently above greatsword fighter, but requires a bonus action
- Quarterstaff 18 dex L5:2*(3.5+4)+(3.5+4)=22.5 & 5 Ki/long or short rest - we can get this up to 24.5 by 2-handing the quarterstaff, or 32 with flurry of blows. flurry of blows is massively above greatsword fighter but requires bonus action and class resource
- +1 Quarterstaff 20 dex L11 - okay, wait, are you completely forgetting the monk gets extra attack at level 5? let me just recalculate this completely: 2*(4.5+6)+(4.5+5)=30.5, or 40 with flurry of blows. flurry of blows just barely beats greatsword at this point
- +1 Quarterstaff 20 dex L20 - once again i'm just gonna recalculate this completely: 2*(5.5+6)+(5.5+5) = 33.5, or 44 with flurry of blows.