Epic Level Spells: Better or Worse than 9th level spells?

[LordAO]

You'd need alot more than a +30 spellcraft item to cast a decent epic spell! Seriously, I was extremely disappointed by the epic spell system. The DCs are outrageously high for the effect involved. You have to add a +20 to the DC just to make the spell have a 1-action casting time! That's another 20 levels in Wizard just to do what you can do with almost every non epic spell! The spells are outrageously expensive to develop too.

And to make it all worse, the spell seeds suck! Their effects start out as like 1st to 5th level spells, mostly. By the time you can use epic spells you should be way beyond that. The cariables such as range, duration, etc are stuck at what they would be at 20th level. You have to pay just to make them as good as you are. A good example is the dispel seed. It's caster level is stuck at +10, just like regular Dispel Magic. That's a 3rd level spell! You have to pay just to increase it and make it as good as your level.

Another thing I really hate about the epic spells is the way they favor clerics with the heal and life seeds. Anyone else who wants to use them has to get 24 ranks in knowledge religion! Psionics "get around" this requirement but are punsihed by having base DCs in the FIFTIES for those seeds!!! And why? That's so stupid! Why can the Cleric do anything with epic spells, but other classes can't? What makes the Cleric so special? And please people, don't reply by saying that they should be better because of gods since that is just ridiculous. Even if that's so, why are Druids punished? In my game we are ignoring that rule. When it comes to epic spells it's fair game. If a cleric can use an epic spell to throw fireballs, then there's no reason a Wizard can't use an epic spell to heal.

I do like the basic idea behind the epic spell system, but the implementation is greatly flawed. I think I'm just going to go back to 10th - 12th level spells!

 

[Kieran]

Hmm, a 24th lvl character with 2 Epic feats (Epic Skill Focus and Epic Spellcasting) could have:

+27 skill ranks
+2 Skill Focus:Spellcraft
+10 Epic Skill Focus
+30 Magic Item
---------------------
+69 to Spellcraft

which makes spells with DCs in the 70's and 80's reasonable to cast.

Not too bad as far as DCs go, though I would agree that some of the Epic spells do seem more cheesy than some 8th or 9th lvl spells.

 

[mikebr99]

Hmm, a 24th lvl character with 2 Epic feats (Epic Skill Focus and Epic Spellcasting) could have:

+27 skill ranks
+2 Skill Focus:Spellcraft
+10 Epic Skill Focus
+30 Magic Item
---------------------
+69 to Spellcraft

which makes spells with DCs in the 70's and 80's reasonable to cast.

Not too bad as far as DCs go, though I would agree that some of the Epic spells do seem more cheesy than some 8th or 9th lvl spells.

You forgot the INT modifier to this skill...

 

[Kieran]

You forgot the INT modifier to this skill...

True enough. That would bring it up to about a +75 or more, depending on what magical items you have.

My only gripe is that you're basically required to be a munchkin and make the +30 item to cast epic spells. Otherwise wait until you're so high lvl that there's almost no point in playing anymore...

 

[Cloudgatherer]

Another thing I really hate about the epic spells is the way they favor clerics with the heal and life seeds. Anyone else who wants to use them has to get 24 ranks in knowledge religion!

Really? I don't recall seeing this....the system definitely needs some work....

 

[Al]

The point of Epic Spells is flexibility. Used as vanilla blast spells, they are weak. Compare the pathetic Ruin with the superior Meteor Swarm for a direct comparison. But the trick is judicious use of mitigating factors, shortcuts and the like.

Backlash is a good one. You take a hefty chunk of damage, but you can really rocket the powers. Take the basic Slay seed, slap on a big backlash, reduce to 1-action casting time and then boost the DC as far as you are able. You get damage- they get dead.

 

[durkinator]

At 24th lvl you might be able to cast a DC 70 spell, but you'd have to spend 25000 XP before you knew the spell. Personally I think the XP is kinda steep just to learn a spell... at least with some of the spells. I mean taking a spell seed and replecating teleport I think came out in the 40's which is like 14000 XP. Granted you can use it in an Anti-magic field, but still.

 

[AuraSeer]

Those want pure number-crunching damage potential can probably get off on Meteor Swarm and Horrid Wilting, probably with lots of metamagic. Me, I want to personalize my abilities and maximize my Cool Factor (tm), which will surely involve epic spells with impressive lightshows.

I'd rather cast Nailed to the Sky and teleport my enemy into orbit, rather than just hitting him with Finger of Death. Either way he's out of my hair, but the epic spell is much more fun.

 

[jgbrowning]

ELH

i dont own the ELH so this may be a dumb as dirt question.

but where does all that gold come from and go to? i mean really 1.5million gold?

if it was dropped into any economy, excluding our modern ones, within a period of weeks the whole kit and kabodle of society would fall apart. bread riots, rampant inflation.. etc...

what does the ELH say about where money goes for making these spells? is it just a "you spend this much and this happens?"

joe b.

 

[drnuncheon]

That's probably true, but it would seem to me that it should be in the Life seed itself. Actually, I expected rules for some kind of mass ressurrection (i.e. bring back 2 or more people at the same time), for an increase in DC.

Circle of Life
Conjuration (Healing)
Spellcraft DC: 57
Components: V, S, DF
Casting Time: 1 action
Area: 20-ft burst centered on caster
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: None (see text)
Spell Resistance: Yes (harmless)
To Develop: 513000 gp, 11 days, 20520 xp;Seed: life (DC 27). Factor: change touch to 20' radius burst (+10 DC), 1 action casting time (+20 DC)

Circle of Life is a powerful ritual used only in the most dire circumstances, when the number of fallen greatly outweighs the ability of the priesthood to bring them back via normal means.

When the spell is cast, a deific light shines from the cleric's eyes and mouth, as servitors of the gods issue forth bearing the souls of the dead, restoring them to life and health as if they had each been individually resurrected.

Care must be taken when using this spell, as all within the radius are given the option to return, whether they be friend or foe.


The only thing slightly unusual I did was allow one to change a touch spell to an area spell. If you wanted to be strictly by-the-book I suppose you could change it to persona (-2 DC) and then change personal to area (+15 DC).