• The VOIDRUNNER'S CODEX is coming! Explore new worlds, fight oppressive empires, fend off fearsome aliens, and wield deadly psionics with this comprehensive boxed set expansion for 5E and A5E!

Eric Noah's Info

Llaurenela

First Post
I have omitted the smilies from the following, so insert the ones that you think it needs as you read it. Please note that if any of this offends you, then in all likelihood you have completely missed the point that I am trying to make. If any thing does offend,you then I apologize ahead of time that you read something into this that I did not intend.

4e, 5e, 6e, and 7e etc will come and go, or not. WOTC/Hasbro made a decision a long time ago to write off a lot of RPG players. WOTC came from the Magic The Gathering background which is antithetical to the roots of D&D and AD&D. Therefore, from the gitgo it was obvious that whatever they did with the game it would not be pleasing to those who really loved D&D or AD&D. And that is the way it worked out, you have today OD&D players, Clessic D&D players, 1st & 2nd Ed AD&D players (although these categories are simplified) and you have 3e players and 3.5e players. Each group pretty much does its own thing and their are not many who play any form of D&D outside their area of preference. However, people in all of these groups for the most part, play other games that offer some of the same things that they like about "their version" of D&D. Some of them actually like the other games better. But for the most part, people play what they like and don't play what they don't like.

Hasbro on the other hand who bought WOTC out, comes from the background of an extremely large faceless coporate entity that is good at making money from games and toys. They really could care less about what the customer wants, and have no concern whatsoever about the quality of whatever they make. It is completely about making money and there are no other concerns that mean anything to the corporate suits. In other words, just a typical corporation, soulless,faceless and historyless. They are not moral or immoral, they are simply unmoral or amoral, i.e. without any moral orientation whatsoever, neutral if you will.

Now I started play rpgs and 1st Ed AD&D about 16 years ago (approx 1990) and I was not tempted with 2e, 3e or 3.5e. A little over a year ago, I discovered OD&D (the 3 books originally published in 1974) and have been hooked on it since. I really could care less about 4e, 5e, 6e, and 7e etc since I will never buy any of it for the same reason that I have never bought any of the 3e or 3.5e stuff and none of the d20 stuff except C&C. That reason is that it doesn't offer me personally anything of interest. (Get a grip, I am not putting down 3e or 3.5e, it is just not to my taste)

Along with discovering OD&D, I also discovered Mythus (Dangerous Journeys) and Arduin and Lejendary Adventures. I also got access to First Fantasy Campaign (the early one) and Adventures in Fantasy. Between these and the internet, I have enough material that is easily ported to OD&D and 1e, to keep me busy playing and having fun for the rest of my life. There are literally hundreds of free modules along with the OOP stuff, that anything my own creative juices run low, I will never run out of things to use.

So WOTC/Hasbro lost all possible business from me when they chose to walk away from what I want to buy. How many people like me are there, who knows and most likely who cares. If whoever owns D&D ever decides to publish the type of stuff that I am interested in I would buy it. If they reprinted the old OOP stuff again, I would buy some of it too. For instance if the original 3 books of D&D where reprinted in the same format and in the same type of box as they were at the beginning, clearly marked "REPRINT 200X" then I would buy several, one for myself about 10 for gifts. And so on for many other OOP products.


Of course that will never happen.
 

log in or register to remove this ad

Plane Sailing

Astral Admin - Mwahahaha!
Llaurenela said:
WOTC came from the Magic The Gathering background which is antithetical to the roots of D&D and AD&D. Therefore, from the gitgo it was obvious that whatever they did with the game it would not be pleasing to those who really loved D&D or AD&D.

I think I would disagree with this statement.

Until the point where WotC was taken over by Hasbro (or sold to them or whatever it was), WotC was doing a lot of things that were pleasing to those who really loved D&D. The 3rd edition was an excellent piece of work which brought many, many people back into the D&D fold and kick-started an RPG revolution in a way that I'd not seen for a decade.

There have been plenty of post 3.0 decisions which haven't been pleasing to many people (especially regarding key design personnel, perhaps?), and I forget at which point Hasbro actually came into the picture; but without WotC, D&D might well be dead now. It seems that TSR was pretty much dead as a business at the point they were taken over, and it seems unlikely that the SRD and OGL would ever have happened at the very least.

Cheers
 

WayneLigon

Adventurer
Llaurenela said:
For instance if the original 3 books of D&D where reprinted in the same format and in the same type of box as they were at the beginning, clearly marked "REPRINT 200X" then I would buy several, one for myself about 10 for gifts. And so on for many other OOP products.

You can usually find those at conventions for a fairly cheap price unless you're looking for rare first printings, along with a lot of the Judge's Guild ODD stuff.
 

JVisgaitis

Explorer
Llaurenela said:
They really could care less about what the customer wants, and have no concern whatsoever about the quality of whatever they make.

Wow is this far from the truth. The main reason TSR failed as a company was they never found out what people wanted. All they did is released products they wanted to release and they suffered for it. You may like OD&D and I have no qualms with that at all, but the pattern with Wizards has certainly been one where they look for feedback from the fans and incorporate into the game.

Every product I buy has a marketing survey and the folks in D&D R&D are always very helpful and listen to feedback. Hasbro may be faceless, but Wizards certainly isn't. And of course they aren't going to release products to support a dead edition. What's the point in that? And if you claim the fact that people still play the old versions of D&D as Wizards failure to bring D&D to the masses, that is just misguided as they can't please everyone...
 

dcas

First Post
Llaurenela said:
Hasbro on the other hand who bought WOTC out, comes from the background of an extremely large faceless coporate entity that is good at making money from games and toys. They really could care less about what the customer wants, and have no concern whatsoever about the quality of whatever they make. It is completely about making money and there are no other concerns that mean anything to the corporate suits. In other words, just a typical corporation, soulless,faceless and historyless. They are not moral or immoral, they are simply unmoral or amoral, i.e. without any moral orientation whatsoever, neutral if you will.

How do you make money if you don't care about what the customer wants? Caring about customer wants and making money are not antithetical to each other, in fact they go hand in hand. I don't see how a company can be profitable without caring about customer wants. Now I might take issue with the way that WOTC/Hasbro has handled 3.0, 3.5, 3.75, etc., but I can't say that they don't care about what the customers want. They solicited a ridiculous amount of customer input for 3.x.
 

fett527

First Post
Llaurenela said:
I have omitted the smilies from the following, so insert the ones that you think it needs as you read it. Please note that if any of this offends you, then in all likelihood you have completely missed the point that I am trying to make. If any thing does offend,you then I apologize ahead of time that you read something into this that I did not intend.

4e, 5e, 6e, and 7e etc will come and go, or not. WOTC/Hasbro made a decision a long time ago to write off a lot of RPG players. WOTC came from the Magic The Gathering background which is antithetical to the roots of D&D and AD&D. Therefore, from the gitgo it was obvious that whatever they did with the game it would not be pleasing to those who really loved D&D or AD&D. And that is the way it worked out, you have today OD&D players, Clessic D&D players, 1st & 2nd Ed AD&D players (although these categories are simplified) and you have 3e players and 3.5e players. Each group pretty much does its own thing and their are not many who play any form of D&D outside their area of preference. However, people in all of these groups for the most part, play other games that offer some of the same things that they like about "their version" of D&D. Some of them actually like the other games better. But for the most part, people play what they like and don't play what they don't like.

Hasbro on the other hand who bought WOTC out, comes from the background of an extremely large faceless coporate entity that is good at making money from games and toys. They really could care less about what the customer wants, and have no concern whatsoever about the quality of whatever they make. It is completely about making money and there are no other concerns that mean anything to the corporate suits. In other words, just a typical corporation, soulless,faceless and historyless. They are not moral or immoral, they are simply unmoral or amoral, i.e. without any moral orientation whatsoever, neutral if you will.

Now I started play rpgs and 1st Ed AD&D about 16 years ago (approx 1990) and I was not tempted with 2e, 3e or 3.5e. A little over a year ago, I discovered OD&D (the 3 books originally published in 1974) and have been hooked on it since. I really could care less about 4e, 5e, 6e, and 7e etc since I will never buy any of it for the same reason that I have never bought any of the 3e or 3.5e stuff and none of the d20 stuff except C&C. That reason is that it doesn't offer me personally anything of interest. (Get a grip, I am not putting down 3e or 3.5e, it is just not to my taste)

Along with discovering OD&D, I also discovered Mythus (Dangerous Journeys) and Arduin and Lejendary Adventures. I also got access to First Fantasy Campaign (the early one) and Adventures in Fantasy. Between these and the internet, I have enough material that is easily ported to OD&D and 1e, to keep me busy playing and having fun for the rest of my life. There are literally hundreds of free modules along with the OOP stuff, that anything my own creative juices run low, I will never run out of things to use.

So WOTC/Hasbro lost all possible business from me when they chose to walk away from what I want to buy. How many people like me are there, who knows and most likely who cares. If whoever owns D&D ever decides to publish the type of stuff that I am interested in I would buy it. If they reprinted the old OOP stuff again, I would buy some of it too. For instance if the original 3 books of D&D where reprinted in the same format and in the same type of box as they were at the beginning, clearly marked "REPRINT 200X" then I would buy several, one for myself about 10 for gifts. And so on for many other OOP products.


Of course that will never happen.
This post made baby jesus cry.
 

Llaurenela

First Post
JVisgaitis said:
Wow is this far from the truth. The main reason TSR failed as a company was they never found out what people wanted. All they did is released products they wanted to release and they suffered for it. You may like OD&D and I have no qualms with that at all, but the pattern with Wizards has certainly been one where they look for feedback from the fans and incorporate into the game.

Every product I buy has a marketing survey and the folks in D&D R&D are always very helpful and listen to feedback. Hasbro may be faceless, but Wizards certainly isn't. And of course they aren't going to release products to support a dead edition. What's the point in that? And if you claim the fact that people still play the old versions of D&D as Wizards failure to bring D&D to the masses, that is just misguided as they can't please everyone...


There is a thing called on demand printing. It could be being used and those of us who would like to buy replacement copies of things that are not going to last forever if you use them (and I use them) could buy them. They have not even released the original three books as pdf for legal purchase and download. I don't think they have failed to bring D&D to the masses, but I do believe that they have looked at the market and decided to just write some of us off. Besides they don't have to release products to support a "dead" edition, all they have to do to be ethical is to allow others to produce what I want to buy, if they are not interested in my money themselves.
 

Llaurenela

First Post
dcas said:
How do you make money if you don't care about what the customer wants? Caring about customer wants and making money are not antithetical to each other, in fact they go hand in hand. I don't see how a company can be profitable without caring about customer wants. Now I might take issue with the way that WOTC/Hasbro has handled 3.0, 3.5, 3.75, etc., but I can't say that they don't care about what the customers want. They solicited a ridiculous amount of customer input for 3.x.

Hasbro sells what they want to sell, and prevents the sale of other things, that is clearly not caring about what their customers want. I have money that I will and would spend to purchase new copies of products if they were available and permitted to be sold. They do not want my money or they would allow someone to produce and sell those items.
 


rounser

First Post
How do you make money if you don't care about what the customer wants?
Easy. What the customer wants is good products for free. No viable company is going to give them that, so then the thinking goes - how can we extract the maximum amount of milk with the minimum amount of moo? Miniatures are an example of a business model that could be imposed on 4E which is designed to extract a large amount of such milk, without the customer's interests at heart. Built in redundancy is a tried and tested business model from games to operating systems to lightbulbs...sell the handle cheap, then once they're hooked into your system, profit from the blades...if you want a man's luxury money, market to his children and wife...put the beer next to the diapers. There are countless other tricks...corporations interested in TV advertising have regular conferences full of psychologists giving advice on how to exploit your children, for heaven's sake.

I'm surprised that you've lived under capitalism so long and not noticed. :confused:
 
Last edited:

Remove ads

Top