Essentials: Magic Item Rarity Explained, it's actually good!

[Rex Blunder]

What you're talking about is much closer to house rules territory.

OH NO! Somebody move this thread to the houserules forum!

 

[UngeheuerLich]

You do realize that those two mechanics are trying to accomplish two entirely different goals right?

One is a replacement for magic items entirely (good if you want to run a low magic world, but still want the PC's to have their "expected" bonuses). The other is a way to "equip" magic items on monsters (for verisimilitude reasons) without breaking the game math.

What you're talking about is much closer to house rules territory.

Actually yes... my part of the discussion started with: I don´t like inherent bonuses as a replacement for magic items...

then I was asked why i would use the treshold of monsters.

then I explained that I don´t really like characters falling too much behind without getting rid of the satisfaction, getting a magic sword early.

And yes, this would be houserule territory. But do I care? No. Inherent bonuses as implemented are lame.

 

[CovertOps]

Actually yes... my part of the discussion started with: I don´t like inherent bonuses as a replacement for magic items...

then I was asked why i would use the treshold of monsters.

then I explained that I don´t really like characters falling too much behind without getting rid of the satisfaction, getting a magic sword early.

And yes, this would be houserule territory. But do I care? No. Inherent bonuses as implemented are lame.

Ok then...I just misunderstood where you were going with that. No problem!

 

[corwyn77]

For my next campaign, I'm definitely using inherent bonuses of some sort. But I kind of wish core rules more inherently supported that system. Critical dice, bonuses tied to enhancement bonuses, etc. can still pose problems that need to be hand waved. I'll likely just equip the characters with the bonus I want them to have in CB, rather than using the inherent bonus.

At the risk of verging further into house rule territory, I'll just link this thread on the wotc boards which solved all my problems with dull 'monster math'. I think this, a smattering of rare and uncommon items and limiting PC creation to consumables (mostly) suits my gm style perfectly.

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[JohnSnow]

An artifact isn't ever really YOURS as a player, it is something you interact with, more like a Companion Character. A rare item would be different. It would be something that belongs to the character that they keep, like other items, but with more history and significance. It seems to me like there's a niche for this kind of item.

Yes. To use The Lord of the Rings as an example, the One Ring is an artifact. The elven rope and the Hobbits' barrow-blades would probably count as "common." The elven cloaks would probably count as "uncommon," as would Gandalf's sword Glamdring and Frodo's Sting.

Anduril (Narsil), Boromir's horn, and Frodo's star-glass (and perhaps the mithril coat) are probably rare. An imperfect example, but there ya go.

 

[keterys]

Not being a scholar, though I am reasonably well read... what about Boromir's Horn and Frodo's Star-Glass or Coat make them Rare?

I mean, the horn may not have even been magical, as old and respected as it was. It was chopped in two by an errant attack.

The Phial is a light source. Potentially a less powerful one than a sunrod, at that.

The coat is pretty cool, I'll grant, but it could just as easily have only been a high level common item or mid-level uncommon item. There's no real flash or specialness to it except the fact that it's a good suit of armor.

 

[JohnSnow]

Not being a scholar, though I am reasonably well read... what about Boromir's Horn and Frodo's Star-Glass or Coat make them Rare?

I mean, the horn may not have even been magical, as old and respected as it was. It was chopped in two by an errant attack.

The Phial is a light source. Potentially a less powerful one than a sunrod, at that.

The coat is pretty cool, I'll grant, but it could just as easily have only been a high level common item or mid-level uncommon item. There's no real flash or specialness to it except the fact that it's a good suit of armor.

Well, Tolkien's really circumspect on what "magic" means when it comes to items, so some of this is speculation.

Boromir's horn supposedly had the property that if it was blown anywhere in the bounds of Gondor, it could be heard and would bring aid. One can argue about the "magical property" of it, but I'm inclined to take the horn's lore at face value.

The Phial of Galadriel seems to be a light source, a source of healing, and to provide some benefit in dark places. In D&D terms, it would probably DO more than Tolkien ever shows overtly, but it's pretty clearly a "rare" item.

Frodo's mithril coat is better than simple mail. It stops a thrust that should have killed him outright. Damage Reduction wouldn't be out of the question. And given that it's essentially mail with the encumbrance of cloth...

Tolkien tends to shy away from super-overt magic. But the mithril coat is a pretty unusual (and character-defining) item.

 

[keterys]

I guess my point is that reduced to D&D terms, they're not terribly impressive. An attempt to D&D-ify them and make them rare would likely result in bedecking them in potentially too many things.

But, sure, you could end up with a
Frodo's +2 Mithril Mail Shirt
Property: This shirt functions as chainmail with no speed or check penalty.
Power (Encounter): Immediate Interrupt. Use when hit by an attack. Reduce the damage dealt by the attack by 10.
Power (Daily): No Action. Use when an attack kills your character or reduces you below 0 hp. You do not die, take no damage from the attack that would bring you below 0 hp, and are stabilized.

You could also just have a +6 Masterwork Uncommon Mail Shirt on a level 4 guy That'd be pretty darn impressive.

You could make the horn more impressive than the fairly lackluster wondrous item, Horn of Summons, but... eh: Standard Action. When you sound the horn, all creatures within 1 mile hear its call. Allies within that range are awakened if they are sleeping, and instantly know your current location, hit point total, and any effects currently affecting you.

 

[JohnSnow]

You could also just have a +6 Masterwork Uncommon Mail Shirt on a level 4 guy That'd be pretty darn impressive.

But by the rules of 4e, Frodo can't possibly have that 26th-level item.

Which I guess is my feeling about "Rare" items. The mithril shirt is mostly a FLAVOR thing on a fighter character like Frodo. When juiced out with the powers you listed, it's a nice, character-defining item. And it's one that doesn't break the power-curve.

One idea I've had is to flatten the cost curve of magic items to eliminate the 1:5 trading of high-level items. Aside from the "magic item market" problem, why doesn't it work this way?

 

[Atlemar]

I went looking for an example of rare, trying to start thinking of character-defining items for my party. The paladin is easy -- a Crusader's Weapon to become Holy Avenger. But I'm seeing here assertions that there are no rare items yet, which doesn't quite match my reading of the Wizards article, that most but not all of the items out are uncommon.

It sure would have helped if Mike Mearls had used a real example instead of weapons that don't exist yet.