Familiar HD

[Olgar Shiverstone]

Do the updated familiar rules in Tome & Blood (which I don't have) address familiar's increase in HD?

It seems odd to me that by the PHB, familiar HD depend on master character level, not class level like most other abilities.

That means that if I'm a 19th level fighter, and take 1 level in wizard, I now have a 20 HD familiar?

 

[Brown Jenkin]

It needs to be character level for game balance reasons, especialy at higher levels. If it is only HD of caster level then your Ftr19/Wiz1 will have a 1HD creature with 2-4 hp. Now consider minimun damage being handed out by 20th level characters and spell effects that vary based on hit die. Your familiar would be dead before the end of your first encounter. You would then take the xp penalty for a dead familiar and have to wait a year to repeat this process. This makes taking a familiar in these circumstances a penalty rather than a benefit. By making the familiar HD based on Character level your familiar can survive. This does not overpower it as all the other benefits are tied to caster level (Int, AC, Touch Spells, speaking, SR).

And yes this does lead to amusing things like that Ftr19/Wiz1 familiar possibly having more HPs than the Wiz20. But the Wiz20 familiar probably has a higher Int than the Ftr19/Wiz1.

 

[Olgar Shiverstone]

I guess my issue is that increased HD (and BAB, BTW) can mean increased advancement issues, and you end up with a combat-monster familiar.

I don't have a problem with caster levels stacking, but I think of you're a Ftr19/Wiz1 and chose to take a familiar you should get what comes when your cat gets toasted.

 

[AGGEMAM]

Actually it is class levels not character levels, at least according to the released version of the SRD.

http://www.opengamingfoundation.org/srd/srdfamiliarsmountscompanions.html

 

[dcollins]

Actually it is class levels not character levels, at least according to the released version of the SRD.

From the page you linked:

Hit Dice: Treat as the master's character level (for effects related to Hit Dice). Use the familiar's normal total if it is higher.

Hit Points: One-half the master's total, rounded down.

Attacks: Use the master's base attack bonus. Use the familiar's Dexterity or Strength modifier, whichever is greater, to get the familiar's melee attack bonus with unarmed attacks. Damage equals that of a normal creature of that type.

Note also that "advancement" is not an issue for, and not allowed to, familiars. Their BAB is equal to their master's and their damage never increases.

 

[Brown Jenkin]

I don't believe the familiar for a Ftr19/Wiz1 would be much of a combat monster. It will have an AC of probably 13 and do probably 1d3-3 damage. Even if it has a reasonabe BAB the damage dealt will be inconsequential to whoever it hits, and its low AC will mean that all iterative attacks will likely hit it. Even if it has the HPs of the party Wizard it does not have the magic protections the Wizard has or the offence to protect itself. Do you realy want to put something that is Very likely to die in combat, especially if it will give you an XP penalty if it does. The sheer amount of damage being delt at these levels, combined with its weak defences would make me very resistant to letting the thing anywhere near combat.

 

[AGGEMAM]

Yet on the vey same page it says (in the table)

Table: Familiar Special Abilities

Master
Class Level
-----------

 

[delkain]

SRD and Familiar Hit dice

From the SRD:

Hit Dice: Treat as the master's character level (for effects related to Hit Dice). Use the familiar's normal total if it is higher.

So the SRD still says character level.

Abilities are determined by class level not Hit dice of the creature.

 

[AGGEMAM]

Re: SRD and Familiar Hit dice

So the SRD still says character level.

No, actually the SRD entry is exactly the same as the PHB entry, where the text says one thing and the table says another thing.

 

[delkain]

The table does not deal with Hit Dice it deals with the special abilities.