Google admits to reading your emails, claims you should expect it.

Can 'o' worms: right now, a lot of businesses and institutions- including the legal system and your health care provider- have been acting as if emails were as confidential as the US mail.
...
Because if email isn't confidential, that means there are all kinds of communications between lawyers and clients, between doctors and paitents, etc. that will suddenly be discoverable in legal proceedings...in violation of current law.

Maybe I'm missing something critical, but I can't follow the jumps that you're making. What makes the ruling so universal? The case being heard is specifically regarding Google's email; I can't see why it would have an effect on emails found on a lawyer's or doctor's server. Why would one person's contract granting Google the right to read their email affect a different person's contract with a different email provider that guarantees privacy?

Furthermore, Google never claimed the information in your emails was public. They said that it wasn't private -- because you shared it with them. And only them. Google's Terms of Service allows them to access the information, but that same TOS guarantees they don't share it with other parties (without opt-in consent). So even if you received an email from your lawyer in a Gmail account, it still wouldn't be discoverable as public information.

I think a lot of people are jumping to a lot of conclusions that simply aren't germane to the legal case at hand. Then again, IANAL.
 

log in or register to remove this ad

Dannyalcatraz

Schmoderator
Staff member
Supporter
The case being heard is specifically regarding Google's email

1) A lot of professionals use Google's gmail and other, similar services. (I myself have a professional email address with Verizon AND with Google.)

2) Just because we're talking about Google's gmail doesn't mean a ruling in the case couldn't have broader impact. It is entirely conceivable, for instance, that if Google's interpretation were to so out, ANY email provider that did not expressly guarantee privacy would be considered non-private.

Furthermore, Google never claimed the information in your emails was public. They said that it wasn't private -- because you shared it with them. And only them.

A communication is only privileged between a lawyer & client, priest & penitent, doctor & patient, or husband & wife- and certain designated agents, employees or colleagues) as long as it is not shared with another party. If Google is correct, the mere fact of sending information via their gmail service means that any formerly privileged data is now outside the privilege, and thus discoverable.

So, for example, that means every time a doctor gmails a colleague about a patient to aid in his diagnosis, he has just violated that patient's right to privacy. Under HIPPA, that would make him liable to the tune of $100 per violation, capped at $25k/year. It's worse if the violation was intentional:

42USC1320d-6 Wrongful disclosure of individually identifiable health information

(a) Offense

A person who knowingly and in violation of this part-

(1) uses or causes to be used a unique health identifier;
(2) obtains individually identifiable health information relating to an individual; or
(3) discloses individually identifiable health information to another person,
shall be punished as provided in subsection (b).

(b) Penalties

A person described in subsection (a) shall-

(1) be fined not more than $50,000, imprisoned not more than 1 year, or both;
(2) if the offense is committed under false pretenses, be fined not more than $100,000, imprisoned not more than 5 years, or both; and
(3) if the offense is committed with intent to sell, transfer, or use individually identifiable health information for commercial advantage, personal gain, or malicious harm, be fined not more than $250,000, imprisoned not more than 10 years, or both.

Note- it is quite possible that subsection (b)(3) could apply to Google itself, if it is using patient data to target ads.


Like I said, I don't think a Google's interpretation will be upheld. But if it is, Zuck could be facing a big (to people like us) fine and a decade in a Federal prison. Not to mention what would happen to Google's stock and the company itself.

Caveat: while I am a lawyer, I'm a contracts, negotiations & drafting guy, not a litigator. But I can assure you that these are very real concerns.
 

pedr

Explorer
Google's argument is that no one who sends an email has a legitimate or reasonable belief that the data contained in that email will not be processed by the computers of the recipient email service. This is self evident because, unlike a letter, the technical steps to transmit the content of a email to a recipient require technical processes to be performed on the data which contains the "content" - Google's computers must do "stuff" to the bits which encode the words of an email to get the email to a Google user.

What is controversial is that Google adds steps whereby its computers use that content to influence the advertisements displayed to recipient Google users. The suit argues this is a violation of privacy, and Google says that it is no different from what it would have to do anyway, so there's no reasonable expectation of privacy.

Google doesn't assert that Google employees have the right to read or provide access to emails by other humans (or other organisations computers), just that adding computer analysis to aid in advertising is conceptually no different from computer analysis to turn computer data back into the displayed words of an email for display to the recipient. This may not be convincing, but I'm not sure it means Google argues that emails aren't private.

Of course the recent revelations mean that email in fact isn't private, and it may, actually, be an ethics violation or unlawful to use email (and Dropbox etc) for legal and medical communication and storage, given what's now known about government access to such systems. That's an issue that's only just coming to the fore, but it isn't really connected with this particular suit against Google.
 

On the plus side, maybe things like this could actually lead to a new message interchange protocol with build in encprytion and security, something to replace e-mail?
 

Umbran

Mod Squad
Staff member
Supporter
Can 'o' worms: right now, a lot of businesses and institutions- including the legal system and your health care provider- have been acting as if emails were as confidential as the US mail.

Well, note something: they're talking about "automated processing". That's not necessarily the same as having a living person *reading* your mail.

If the content is mechanically scanned (for example, to generate targeted ads) but not stored or comprehended by a living being, has it been "read"? Has privacy been violated if no *person* ever sees the data in a way that connects it to the individuals in question.

(And Zuckerberg is Facebook, not Google. Unless you're extending to "private" posts talking about medical concerns on Facebook, which I may have missed.)
 
Last edited:

Umbran

Mod Squad
Staff member
Supporter
On the plus side, maybe things like this could actually lead to a new message interchange protocol with build in encryption and security, something to replace e-mail?

No real need. Folks could simply start using PGP (Pretty Good Privacy) to encrypt e-mails. This would step people back to using desktop e-mail clients again, rather than use Google's (or another provider's) web-interface.
 

tomBitonti

Adventurer
Google's argument is that no one who sends an email has a legitimate or reasonable belief that the data contained in that email will not be processed by the computers of the recipient email service.

Just read one of the links (having some trouble with my DNS today, so was only able to read one.)

This seems to wildly conflate necessary non-interpretive processing (on the same order as copying bits between disk and RAM as a part of normal processing), with unnecessary interpretive processing (looking for keywords or phrases, today, eventually, much deeper analysis) to build a profile for use in directed advertising.

Are there any precedents out there for photo processing services? Certainly, there is a a need to have a machine scan photographic negatives and for a person to review the processing, say, to correct color and darkness levels. Incidental to those views, if there is evidence of a crime, I don't think one is protected. But, for the processor to tag your image (pet lover; sexual preference; nature lover; &etc) and use that information for directed sales seems to break privacy.

Thx!

TomB
 

tomBitonti

Adventurer
A related (I'm thinking) question: If a lawyer or physician hired a legal/medical assistant to help with records keeping and other office work, are they considered third parties, or as extensions of the lawyer or physician? If a lawyer hires a trusted / secure messenger who delivers a confidential communication which is held in a locked case across town, would that expose the communication to a third party?

Thx!

TomB
 

Janx

Hero
A related (I'm thinking) question: If a lawyer or physician hired a legal/medical assistant to help with records keeping and other office work, are they considered third parties, or as extensions of the lawyer or physician? If a lawyer hires a trusted / secure messenger who delivers a confidential communication which is held in a locked case across town, would that expose the communication to a third party?

Thx!

TomB

They're considered part of the staff and thus covered under the NDA and BLA you should have with them

My company is a middle-ware and IT company for other medical and insurance handling businesses. I apologize if this sounds like a commercial. I won't tell you where I work, and you've never heard of us anyway. But this may give some perspective from the medical/insurance/legal business as we have clients in these areas and this is what we do.

Under HIPPA we have to have NDAs and Business Level Agreements to secure the data and have the other party agree that we secured the data. It's a 2 way street, so as the client audits us, we audit them, and since we're in the middle between their clients, we audit their client and they audit us. The audit intensity varies, and the bar is lower for smaller businesses (though certain minimal expectations are there).

Generally speaking, any office staff who has a need, has authorization to read your file (as a patient). So the doctor, the billing department, the med assistant, the scheduling department, they all get to open your file because they have a need to see info from it to do their job.

Ideally, they'd only be authorized to see your file WHILE you're in the time frame of needing work done, and they'd see as little as possible.

However, that tends to be less practical than logging their access and detecting if they make unusual accesses. It is surprisingly complicated to enable/disable rights for individual employees who sometimes have a need than it is for the main office staff to see what they want, when they want, because if they were going to screw you, they'd do it in the window they have anyway.

Generally speaking, they're OK.

Now when that office contracts out to a EDI clearing house or something, audits have to happen and contracts get signed. In EDI, there's encryption going on and it's all fairly secure.

The sloppy area is when the office emails files to doctors because doctors can't be bother to learn the system, or when insurance people email files because they don't use the web portal.

Within your company, Exchange is secure. I can email Patient XYZ to you if we're both employees, and hackers aren't getting it, HIPPA isn't mad. If I email that file your gmail account, as this thread indicates, there's problems.

Technically, to include a 3rd party in the transaction requires a BLA under HIPPA. The third party is liable for securing that data, and if they don't KNOW that you're putting Protected Health Information (PHI) on them, how can they comply with HIPPA?

On top of that is that email from my server to your server is not secure, unless there's a pre-established encryption between us (TLS, forget what it stands for).

We have TLS setup with some specific clients, but our general approach is NEVER send patient data via email. Our products include web portals for logging in to see your authorized patient data/files and emails that contain links to our web portal. We never send any PHI in our automated emails.

On top of that Exchange 2010 and above has enforcement rules for preventing a user from sending an email that contains PHI because it looks for the patterns of it (like a social security number)

We're a small company, a breach means somebody gets the data we hold, and we pay for notifications for the affected people, and we pay a million dollar fine to the Department of Health. That's what any of these businesses face. For us, we're scared to death of the HIPPA monster.
 

Janx

Hero
In finally reading the article (I woke up in the wrong order).

the lawyer's language is jerky.

His first statement is correct. google's server is going to read the bits of your secret email. Google is in the business of showing YOU ads relevant to YOU which they get to know from YOUR email.

if all you email about is cars, you will see more ads about cars. if all you talk about is medical conditions (because you are unwisely conducting your practice through gmail), then you will see medical ads.

You will never see an ad displaying anybody's social security number, nor is google collecting those and storing them.

Google probably needs a better public relations writer to refine that so it is clear.

It is also improbable that any human at google is actually reading any emails. that might not be entirely true as the guys who code up email parsing routines to detect ad-useful keywords may be using copies of the live email database to get natural examples of content (this kind of thing happens because live data takes more random shapes than fake data).
 

Remove ads

Top