D&D 5E [GUIDE] My Word Is My Sword: The Paladin Guide
Lance doesn't work with GWM as it doesn't have "Heavy" property. It works with PAM though as it has "Reach".
I knew it was one but not the other
Benny89, it seems a bit unwieldy to break down all the spots where you could've done a better analysis in your posts, so i'll post an optimal Half-Elf Hexadin from scratch instead.
Half-Elf standard pointbuy
15 10 16 8 8 17
Takes PAM, Elven Accuracy (+1 CHA), and CHA+2 with its ASIs. Dueling Fighting Style. Single level of Hexblade dipped somewhere before Paladin 11, can afford to take more after the third ASI.
At 13 looks like:
15 10 16 8 8 20
CON saves aren't the best they could be (on a VHuman STR Paladin they'll be +10 or +11), but at +8 it'll pass standard Concentration checks 95% of the time and a ring/cloak of protection provides a quick fix for 100% there. If it gets to 17 it'll want to take War Caster, anyway.
Weapon is Quarterstaff or Spear used alongside a shield. Paired with Dueling FS, is better DPR than PAM+GWM+Glaive set ups. Also, wears Plate.
Basically, your assumption of what would be the best Half-Elf Hexadin is mistaken. 15 STR is very much a good idea and gives you a better array for higher starting CON, and you can use PAM with 1-handed weapons so it keeps # of attacks parity with STR builds.
ED: This is for maximum DPR, but in truth you'd want to grab War Caster as the second or third ASI for Shield casting and reaction Booming Blade attacks, which synergize with 1h PAM use and Relentless Avenger mobility. Also completely takes care of the Concentration issue.
Half-Elf standard pointbuy
15 10 16 8 8 17
Takes PAM, Elven Accuracy (+1 CHA), and CHA+2 with its ASIs. Dueling Fighting Style. Single level of Hexblade dipped somewhere before Paladin 11, can afford to take more after the third ASI.
At 13 looks like:
15 10 16 8 8 20
CON saves aren't the best they could be (on a VHuman STR Paladin they'll be +10 or +11), but at +8 it'll pass standard Concentration checks 95% of the time and a ring/cloak of protection provides a quick fix for 100% there. If it gets to 17 it'll want to take War Caster, anyway.
Weapon is Quarterstaff or Spear used alongside a shield. Paired with Dueling FS, is better DPR than PAM+GWM+Glaive set ups. Also, wears Plate.
Basically, your assumption of what would be the best Half-Elf Hexadin is mistaken. 15 STR is very much a good idea and gives you a better array for higher starting CON, and you can use PAM with 1-handed weapons so it keeps # of attacks parity with STR builds.
ED: This is for maximum DPR, but in truth you'd want to grab War Caster as the second or third ASI for Shield casting and reaction Booming Blade attacks, which synergize with 1h PAM use and Relentless Avenger mobility. Also completely takes care of the Concentration issue.
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Blue
Ravenous Bugblatter Beast of Traal
PAM has a specific list of weapons. Some don't have reach like the quarterstaff and the spear (added in errata). Other weapons like the lance and the whip that have reach aren't on the list.
Curses!
I disagreee. I don't see a reason for Half-Elf to take PAM without GWM. That is totally useless. He will do extra 1k4 + 5 + 1k8 without GWM. That is on average extra 9,5 dmg without smite. With Duelist and using one-handed sword with 3 attack he willl deal extra +2 per attack so +6. Meaning on average he gain extra 3,5 dmg per turn. Sure he gets extra attack for smite but using two-handed weapon without GWM is just not optimizal at all. You don't gain enough to off-set +2 duelist nad +2 AC from shield here.
In my opinion your assumption is bad in the moment you suggest for Vengeance Paladin to take PAM without GWM. With VoE (and even with Half-Elf and their Accuracy) it's just waste of talent potential.
Secondly. +8 to CON saves might be enough for standard normal attacks. However there are enemies doing a lot different kinds of attacks, like poison etc. which on fail save can deal easly 30+ damage + attack if DM get good dices. When you use Haste you don't want to make assumption "I should succeed on most CONC saves" as all it takes is one fail for you to end up potentially dead. You want to make sure you will succeed every CONC save (or at least as much as possible).
I am sorry but I get expression that most people who say that RES (CON) is skippable on Vengeance Paladin mostly never played one and don't realize how easy is to fail a save especially if there are a lot of multi attack enemies. Damage doesn't have to be big, but you can still fail. And one haste fail and if DM is not playing easy-mode - you can easly die.
Quater Stuff + Shield is better DPR than PAM + GWN + Glaive? What?
1k6 + 2 + 5 + 1k8 (if we have Improved Smite) x 3 (Let's say we have haste on) + 1k4 + 2 +5 + 1k8 is 45 + 14 = average 59 per turn.
1k10 + 10 + 1k8 + 5 x 3 + 1k4 + 10 + 1k8 + 5 is 75 + 22 = avereage 97 per turn. That is almost 40 dmg difference.
Hell, we could not use Haste and use Bless intead to off set GWM moer and it still would be better DPR:
2x 25 + 22 = 50 + 22 = 72 vs 59 of Quaterstaff + Shield.
Even 3k8 Smite won't compensate on Average with + 10 of GWM.
This is just wrong.
Blue
Ravenous Bugblatter Beast of Traal
As you correctly point out, at times there's massive damage hits that come through. However, the +2 to +6 of proficiency won't suddenly bring a DC 25-30 into "usually succeed" range. It helps, but there will be times that you will lose your concentration.
Also as you point out, a round of enforced no-action usually means death for a front-liner. When you combine that with the fact that against creatures with attacks that large (or even potentially with crits), you shouldn't be self-casting Haste. You won't have enough 3rd+ level slots to cast Haste every encounter of a day anyway, there are times self-dangerous Concentration like Haste should just be avoided. (And anyway, it's a team game - let the dedicated caster who's not on the front lines buff you as well.)
If you are instead using your Concentration slot for something else like Shield of Faith or Bless, losing it isn't as bad. Sure, it would take an action (or bonus action for Shield of Faith) to renew if you need to, but the slot loss isn't crippling. At this point keeping Concentration up during the rare combats that can generate very high DCs can be a small threat instead of a large one though tactics of what you are casting. RES (CON) is very nice, but in that case not as critical.
Blue
Ravenous Bugblatter Beast of Traal
I think you're leaving chance out hit out of these calculations. If they were all the same chance to hit it would all wash out but when you need to take into consideration the -5 part of -5/+10 it makes a big difference in the expected DPR.
I already addressed concentration so I'll focus on this bit.
As Blue mentioned above, you are underestimating accuracy in your napkin math.
Try this skeleton to do some sims: https://anydice.com/program/132a4
Keeping things brief, fact is that QS/Spear + PAM + Dueling has a better general damage profile than GWM+PAM, as having that extra ASI by skipping GWM really makes that much of an impact.
Now, piling additional to-hit bonuses to the attack roll, notably advantage in the case of Vengeance, does shift matters more favorably towards GWM use for all but the higher spectrum of AC values, but not to the extent that you'd call the 1h PAM+shield combo a "waste" in light of its other benefits. And factoring in the end-all weapon buff, Holy Weapon, shifts that balance back again.
Note this is for STR; a higher MOD plus Elven Accuracy matches or exceeds GWM+Advantage for a much wider AC range. Accuracy and crit chance matters.
Ultimately, what I want to make clear is 1h PAM is very very legit, and real-world Hexadin DPR does not suffer for it beyond the IDS delay
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