Half-Giant

[Raduin711]

I'm a little Dissatisfied with the versions of Dark Sun's half-giant presented by the Expanded Psionic Handbook and by Athas.org's conversion.

The EPH version presents them as a "psionic" race (half-giants weren't necessarily very good at psionics) and gave them a measly +2 bonus to strength. This is a half-GIANT, not a psionic half-orc.

I have playtested the version of the hg presented by http://www.athas.org. The player was a little dissappointed by the lack of hit points, surprisingly. We were playing at 4th level, meaning the half-giant barbarian he played had 2d8 hit points from being a giant, and 1d12 hp from his 1 barbarian level. The disparagement between his hit points and those of the other players was apparent. Upon discovering that those 2 rather wimpy d8's added to his LA, he was a little sore. I also felt that the bonuses and penalties were really severe, making the half-giant feasable only as a fighter or barbarian, perhaps a gladiator.

Anyway, I decided to make a new one, this time basing it off of the Goliath from Races of Stone. Thought I would post it here for some opinions.

Strength +6
Dexterity -2
Constitution +4
Intelligence -2
Wisdom -2
Charisma -2

Half Giant Base Speed is 30 Feet.

Medium Sized

Giant-Blooded: For all effects related to race, a Half-Giant is considered a Giant. Half-Giants, for example, are just as vulnerable to special effects that effect giants as their giant ancestors are, and they can use magic or psionic items that are only useable by giants.

Powerful Build: The physical stature of a Half-Giant lets him function in many ways as if he were one size category larger. Whenever a Half-Giant is subject to a size modivier or special size modifier for an opposed check (such as during grapple checks, bull rush attempts, and trip attempts), the Half-Giant is treated as one size larger if doing so is advantageous to him. A Half-Giant is also considered to be one size larger when determining whether a creature's special attacks based on size (such as improved grab or swallow whole) can affect him. A Half-Giant can use weapons designed for a creature of one size larger without penalty. However, his space and reach remain those of a creature of his actual size. The benefits of this racial trait stack witht he effects of powers, abilities, and spells that change the subject's size category.

Helpful: A Half-Giant who makes a successful Aid Another check provides more help than most other races. When used to aid someone using a skill, the bonus is raised to +3 rather than +2. When used in Combat, you can provide a +3 to the companion's next attack roll, or +4 to the companion's AC.

Malleable Alignment: One axis of the Half-Giant (either the Good-Neutral-Evil or the Lawful-Neutral-Chaos axis) is malleable, while the other is fixed. This portion of the Giant's alignment tends to change from time to time, usually depending on the people that are influencing him at the time. Once per day, usually when they first wake up, they can change that axis. This change should reflect the events that have recently transpired; a LN Half-Giant with the "lawful" portion malleable may shift to N or CN following taking part in a slave uprising. A NG with the "Good" portion malleable may turn to Evil after being abused in the Sorcerer-King's dungeons.

Favored Class: Barbarian

Level Adjustment +1

 

[Crothian]

I'd go +2 ecl since it gets +6 to strength. It has a lot for it but not a lot against. I don't have the goliath to see how it compares.

 

[Arkhandus]

Possibly a tad weak for +1 LA, but then, I don't have Races of Stone so I don't know what the Goliath's Powerful Build trait provides. I assume though that it grants benefits of being nearly size Large? I'd suggest boosting the Constitution to +6 instead of +4, possibly.

What's their creature type? Their favored class? Do they have any racial hit dice? Do they have the standard traits of their creature type? Remember that racial hit dice are almost always worth less than class hit dice (i.e. Humanoid hit dice provide mediocre HP, relatively few skills, and little else; the exceptions are Outsider, Dragon, and similar racial hit dice, which rock), so if you give them any racial hit dice, they may deserve some additional minor benefits to make them worthy of the LA those racial hit dice would force upon them.

 

[Arkhandus]

Giving them ECL of +2 just for +6 Str and +4 Con would be silly. Silly like giving half-orcs no benefits but +2 Strength and Darkvision while saying they're fine that way. {:^D

Compared to half-orcs, these variant half-giants have a further +4 Str and Powerful Build for +1 LA, +4 Con for -2 Dex and Wis, Giant-Blooded for Orc Blood, Helpful and Malleable Alignment for Darkvision, and no favored class listed. Now consider how half-orcs are themselves relatively underpowered and ineffective in most class roles in the Core Rules.

 

[Mark Causey]

Malleable Alignment: One axis of the Half-Giant (either the Good-Neutral-Evil or the Lawful-Neutral-Chaos axis) is malleable, while the other is fixed. This portion of the Giant's alignment tends to change from time to time, usually depending on the people that are influencing him at the time. Once per day, usually when they first wake up, they can change that axis. This change should reflect the events that have recently transpired; a LN Half-Giant with the "lawful" portion malleable may shift to N or CN following taking part in a slave uprising. A NG with the "Good" portion malleable may turn to Evil after being abused in the Sorcerer-King's dungeons.

I'm curious if this ability, in your intentions, was meant to be able to affect classes (is this a temporary change only, thus not affecting alignment affected classes and prestigve classes, or would the ability actually change the alignment, and prevent/create opportunites to advance in classes)?

 

[Raduin711]

I'll go ahead and post the powerful build ability...

Powerful Build: The physical stature of a Half-Giant lets him function in many ways as if he were one size category larger. Whenever a Half-Giant is subject to a size modivier or special size modifier for an opposed check (such as during grapple checks, bull rush attempts, and trip attempts), the Half-Giant is treated as one size larger if doing so is advantageous to him. A Half-Giant is also considered to be one size larger when determining whether a creature's special attacks based on size (such as improved grab or swallow whole) can affect him. A Half-Giant can use weapons designed for a creature of one size larger without penalty. However, his space and reach remain those of a creature of his actual size. The benefits of this racial trait stack witht he effects of powers, abilities, and spells that change the subject's size category.

The Favored Class should be Barbarian.

Stats for Goliath
+4 Strength, -2 Dexterity, +2 Constitution.
This results in a net bonus of +4 strength. The Dex Penalty is a valid payback for the +2 con.

Stats for Half-Giant
+6 Strength, -2 Dexterity, +4 Constitution, -2 Intelligence, -2 Wisdom, -2 Charisma
The Net bonus is still +4 strength. The extra +2 strength is paid for by the Intelligence and Wisdom Penalties, wile the +2 Constitution is paid for by the Charisma penalty. (see p 173 dmg)

Their creature type is humaniod. I really don't want to get into racial hit dice.

The Malleable Alignment isn't supposed to be so much a bonus as a role-playing quirk of the Half Giant. I really hadn't thought of the class implications... It's not really supposed to be a bonus. I think it best to say that in order to qualify for a class with alignment restrictions, the alignment in question MUST be fixed. So yes, the Half-Giants couldn't qualify for the Paladin class. (!) Good thing there are no paladins on athas. ;]

 

[guyjin]

I never did like the 'crazy alignment' thing. it would basically mean that all half-giants are unpredictable psychopaths, and thus not very good slaves. this is a rather foolish trait to build into a race that was created by the sorcerer kings to be slaves.

 

[Raduin711]

More that the half-giants adapt to match those around them, and it goes so far as to change their alignment from time to time.

It is a really unusual trait about the race, and appears to be an actual hinderance in 3.5 with all the prestige classes and so on floating around.

 

[harmyn]

for my money go Goliath or the shway kewl Half-Ogre. I really like the Half-Ogre. And I don't think they are unbalanced. The +1 level adjustment seems to work just about right for me.

 

[Raduin711]

for my money go Goliath or the shway kewl Half-Ogre. I really like the Half-Ogre. And I don't think they are unbalanced. The +1 level adjustment seems to work just about right for me.

The hg is mostly based off of the goliath... I tried to keep the racial abilities equal, and any stat changes I made I paid back. I need to go back and look at the half-ogre, a version based on it may turn out better.