D&D General half-orcs and bad Charisma

[ECMO3]

There is an older game (Super-Hero Genre) called Villains and Vigilantes that Charisma, in part) is the degree to which you reflect "the side" you are on. So, evil characters with a high Charisma gets a bonus when dealing with evil people/nps, and good characters with a high Charisma get a bonus when dealing with good characters/npc.

I believe in 1E something similar applied.. With bad charisma giving a bonus when dealing with evil creatures and good charisma giving a penalty.

This does not make a lot of sense and we never used it.

 

[Edgar Ironpelt]

In practice, Charisma is used as the "make friends and influence people" ability score. So while Dwarves, Half-Orcs, and Orcs might have strong and forceful personalities, those personalities are also off-putting. Their penalty to Charisma can be attributed to their strong personalities rubbing people the wrong way, rather than to their having weak and wimpy personalities.

That's my two cents, anyway.

 

[le Redoutable]

... which corrobores Cha ---> Willpower

 

[le Redoutable]

... or is this Cha + Wis ---> Social ( or Diplomatic ) ...

 

[Micah Sweet]

Yes, but ability score penalties are bad in general. Charisma penalties for being "ugly" are just extra bad.

What makes them bad in general, in your opinion (which I assume this is)?

 

[EzekielRaiden]

What makes them bad in general, in your opinion (which I assume this is)?

An absence of a bonus is already enough to steer people away from non-archetypal options, if one's goal is to drive people away from playing against type. A penalty doubles that, actively punishing anyone who tries to play against type.

Ability score penalties directly and substantially contribute to everyone playing more "cookie-cutter" characters.

Also, frankly, the racial essentialism issue.

 

[Micah Sweet]

An absence of a bonus is already enough to steer people away from non-archetypal options, if one's goal is to drive people away from playing against type. A penalty doubles that, actively punishing anyone who tries to play against type.

Ability score penalties directly and substantially contribute to everyone playing more "cookie-cutter" characters.

Also, frankly, the racial essentialism issue.

What if the penalties appear somewhere other than race, you know, like the bonuses do?

And playing against type is kinda meaningless if there's no downside to it. And before you say that it can be role-played, remember that RP penalties are deeply subjective and a poor way to balance anything, because they can't be strictly enforced.

 

[DammitVictor]

What makes them bad in general, in your opinion (which I assume this is)?

"Ugly" is subjective. STR is STR and your maximum load doesn't change based on who's asking.

 

[SteveC]

At the point where we are with D&D, there's really no reason for any species/ancestry to give bonuses to stats at all. I would simply roll that into the default array, or perhaps even into class. The discussion as to what a dwarf or elf or orc is these days is increasingly a relic of earlier times. Custom Lineage for everyone. That isn't what I'm looking for but it does remove a lot of baggage.

 

[Micah Sweet]

"Ugly" is subjective. STR is STR and your maximum load doesn't change based on who's asking.

I'm talking about ability score penalties, not the Charisma score.