Healing in Combat

[Rhenny]

For in combat healing, I think Clerics should have healing magic tied to Channel Divinity instead of spell slots.

Also, perhaps the "Healer" theme can grant a number of "Bandage the Wounded" abilities that could be used any time to grant 1d4+1/level. This way, even a fighter could have the healer theme to help on the battlefield. There could be more restrictions to this ability if necessary, like usable only once per patient per encounter.

With potions, I don't think there needs to be too much more in-combat healing, but I like it as an option.

 

[Crazy Jerome]

Scale healing to hit points--not 1:1, but proportional. Everyone can do damage, some better than others with particular means. So everyone should be able to heal, some better than others with different means. Make the cleric a better healer insstead of "the healer." Have rough categories:

• Poor healing - based on d4s.
• Standard healig - based on d6s.
• Good healing - based on d8s (cleric goes here).

Pick some kind of theme or ability that fits, go up a die size. So now a cleric dedicated to healing uses d10s. Generally, more powerful healing should grant more dice instead of straight mods, because that will also scale better.

This won't solve the fundamental problems, but it will handle some of the stuff around the edges, while bringing the rest some clarify. It will make healing less "all or nothing" as with old clerical-only healing, while also scaling in ways that make sense with the rest of the game.

Second, either accept that "wearing down" is a goal of some play or it isn't. If it is, then individual challenges need to be not so tough, because the point is not to be in real danger of getting killed, but losing a few hit points before the next fight. When in this mode, make sure that healing resources come back on the same schedule as other resources, and that this schedule is mutable with the style of the story. If you travel for weeks at a time and occasionally get into a scrape, it may even be months.

OTOH, when "wearing down" is not a goal of play, don't worry about this part. Individual fights will be serious business--and this means inherently that someone may be left in bad shape, unable to go on, and thus the party will if at all possible, hole up and rest.

What you can't have with D&D healing is the pretense that "every fight is serious business" and at the same time the party goes into a big dungeon or wilderness trek where they may have fight after fight, but not "bounce back" healing. They "wear down" or they don't.

 

[MoonSong]

I'm not entirely sold on healing not being tied to spell slots, I like it that way, it makes casting a healing spell a meaningfull choice. It isn't any secret I like playing dedicated healers, I don't see anything wrong with the cleric prepparing only healing spells on a given day, I actually embrace it as a play style and I don't want that choice taken away.

I truly loated all of the changes that 4e brought to the healing system and how that affected dedicated healers:

healing as a minor action? so it means that healing isn't important enough to justify a standard action? that is basically forcing you to attack every turn.

Healing surges limiting daily healing? so it means that instead of helping the party by healing more often I'm wasting their precious surges, and that instead of helping the party fight more fights without having to rest you actually make them less durable oin the long run.

Healing by inflicting damage? seriously? Causing damage is the fighter's job, I don't like having to inflict damage in order to heal my people

Second wind? great, just take away the times when you should shine in combat, at most you can help them do it as a minor action (again, not important enough).

Full reset every night? You just took away the dedicated healer's main goal! you no longer get to make sure your party can fully recover by the end of the day or at least finish in an overall good shape, they just sleep and poof! fully healed.

So far I'm liking the playtest,(except for the full reset every night) I don't see anything wrong with cure light wounds and Healing word coexisting. In fact I truly wish it gets to be possible to eventually have both of them.

 

[MarkB]

What I'd like Next to avoid is, to be honest, both of these aspects. Clerics should not be essential, and they shouldn't have to choose between setting things on fire and healing. On the other hand, they shouldn't be able to heal as a matter of course, it just skews the party HP.

How about making the only form of in-combat healing a 'Revivify' style spell that picks people back up from unconsciousness? That way, you can still heal to keep someone in the fight, but you can't use it to bolster characters who are merely bruised and battered.

 

[Dragoslav]

healing as a minor action? so it means that healing isn't important enough to justify a standard action? that is basically forcing you to attack every turn.

Healing surges limiting daily healing? so it means that instead of helping the party by healing more often I'm wasting their precious surges, and that instead of helping the party fight more fights without having to rest you actually make them less durable oin the long run.

Healing by inflicting damage? seriously? Causing damage is the fighter's job, I don't like having to inflict damage in order to heal my people

Second wind? great, just take away the times when you should shine in combat, at most you can help them do it as a minor action (again, not important enough).

Full reset every night? You just took away the dedicated healer's main goal! you no longer get to make sure your party can fully recover by the end of the day or at least finish in an overall good shape, they just sleep and poof! fully healed.

1) No, it means that healing is so important that the designers didn't want to force people to choose between healing and attacking. The "minor" designation isn't a value-judgment on an action's importance; it distinguishes how much time it takes to do different actions.

2) Healing surges don't do anything unless you grant an ally the ability to use them. They're there to be used, after all. I don't think any player is going to complain that you made him "waste" a healing surge when he has 1 HP in the middle of a tough battle.

3) Damage is a striker's job, indeed, which is why clerics don't do as much of it (a nominal amount, if any). And most cleric powers have the healing as an "effect," so you don't even have to hit to give the ally the boost.

4) Using your second wind is typically only something you do when you're desperate (usually when there -isn't- a healer in the party, he's down, or he's out of heals, so it doesn't take any of the spotlight from the healer): It uses your standard action, so you can't even attack. And being able to use your second wind as anything other than a standard action is GREAT. Dwarves can use it as a minor action, which is one of their most appealing features.

5) Fair enough, although 4e healers still provide the benefit of letting the party heal more -efficiently- in one adventuring day: they get their healing surge value + extra HP, and sometimes can get HP without spending a surge, so they don't have to use as many healing surges.

 

[delericho]

Also, perhaps the "Healer" theme...

Actually, maybe that's where the solution lies - remove healing from the Cleric entirely, and instead give it to a Healer theme that any character can (in theory) take. Sure, that just means you go from "need a Cleric" to "need a Healer", but at least it means that that character can also be the Fighter, Rogue, Wizard, or whatever.

3) Damage is a striker's job, indeed, which is why clerics don't do as much of it (a nominal amount, if any). And most cleric powers have the healing as an "effect," so you don't even have to hit to give the ally the boost.

I disliked Healing Surges, from a flavour viewpoint (although as a pure mechanic, they were fine). But I detested all the Cleric powers of that type. "I attack the goblin, so your wounds suddenly close!" Yeah, that's about as close to a deal-breaker as anything.

(YMMV, of course. That's just where I stand on the matter.)

 

[BobTheNob]

Im not overly concerned by in-combat healing as long as the numbers are right. If you make in-combat healing the right blend of Spell-Level to Amount healed and get the action economy right, whether to heal becomes an option. Hell, it might be better for the overall outcome for the cleric to pull out a smiting spell rather than heal a fallen comrade, and if that can happen, things would feel about right.

The one thing I do NOT want is for clerics to become the parties "between combat recovery bag of healing spells". Played a cleric under those circumstances, HATED it (which was the moment my heart broke, cause clerics are one of my favorite thematic choices).

 

[Lalato]

I like where you're going with this, Chris. If I were king for a day...

Yes, to second wind... It should still take an action as in 4e, but it's an elegant way to give one heal to each player without breaking the bank.

Yes, to healing as a minor/swift action... but limit this to a healer theme. And the theme could be skinned however your table likes. If the healer needs to be magical in nature, then the Fighter with the Healer theme knows a bit of healing magics. If your table is OK with Warlord style healing, then the Fighter with the Healer theme can encourage people to press on by saying... "Walk it off, you lazy bastard!" The main downside to a Healer theme is that it still assumes the need for a dedicated healer. I don't have a problem with this, but some people might.

Yes, to armor as AC AND DR... while not a form of healing, reducing the amount of damage you take is a good thing. I haven't found DR to be needlessly complex. The DM calls out damage, you record the damage minus the DR. No biggie. It's also a way of limiting the overall number of hitpoints characters need to survive early levels (which is often a complaint I see)

Yes, to ritual-based healing out of combat... The ritual mechanic is ripe for out of combat healing. Even spending HD with a healing kit can be reduced to a ritual. This is essentially a ritual every character has access to. Now, what if there were other magical and mundane rituals that also aided in healing. Short rituals, like healing kit based ones use up your HD. Longer rituals, if you have the time, might not use up HD, but just give HP straight up. Medium length rituals might still use HD, but give bonuses to HP as well, or max out HD. Rituals, both magical and mundane, should be available to all classes that are willing to learn them. Taking the Healer theme gives you proficiency with any healing ritual (though you still need to buy the ritual or obtain it however your campaign allows).

Yes, to healing through regular rest... While I'm personally OK with overnight healing, just dial it down to whatever your table needs. If you want it to be 1HP per day or 1HD per day or some percentage of total HP per day... make it so. The rules should have a blurb about this to allow you to set it as needed.

Anyway, so for the rambling... I hope this spurs more conversation.

 

[GX.Sigma]

Whatever they do, tinkering with the Cleric too much can push it over the edge of D&D-ness: I expect the Cleric to be a vancian spellcaster, and to have a spell called Cure Light Wounds. If he didn't, it wouldn't feel like D&D.

However, I believe strongly that Clerics shouldn't have to be healers, so I hope the game doesn't need them to be. There's no reason why a Cleric of a fire god would cure wounds and turn undead. Much like evil clerics can traditionally inflict wounds and command undead, I hope there are lots of interesting options for those slots.

 

[Fifth Element]

Yep, that's basically my preferred solution as well. I've come to regard in-combat healing as, frankly, an abomination that the game would be better without (except for the aforementioned Second Wind option). And I likewise believe every character should have some relatively easy access to 'real' healing outside of combat - the Cleric prays, the Wizard uses regenerative ritual magic, the Fighter performs 'surgery', or whatever. (Conveniently, these three options can all be modelled using a single ritual, reskinned for each power source, or equivalent.)

Unfortunately, I'm at least 99% sure that Clerical healing, including in-combat healing, is viewed as a sacred cow, and so won't be going anywhere. Maybe as a module?

Actually, maybe that's where the solution lies - remove healing from the Cleric entirely, and instead give it to a Healer theme that any character can (in theory) take. Sure, that just means you go from "need a Cleric" to "need a Healer", but at least it means that that character can also be the Fighter, Rogue, Wizard, or whatever.

I've been coming around to this way of thinking in recent months. I would very much be down with removing in-combat healing altogether. It would fit better with fiction as well - healers need a bit of time to work their craft, not a quick prayer and a slap on the butt and poof! all better.