D&D 5E Helping melee combat to be more competitive to ranged.

[Tony Vargas]

No it doesn't. That's just creative mathing. Without the -5, you'd be +2 better to hit. You can only ever fully ignore that -5 if you need a 2 or better to hit. Otherwise its a flat 25% less chance of hitting what you are shooting at.

It's not quite that simple. Sure, -5 is always -5, but the impact on DPR depends on what you're taking that -5 away from - and Advantage comes into things a lot in 5e, and complicates the issue a bit. If you're running a 50% chance to hit, and take that -5, you drop to 25% (you're hitting half as often), and even advantage only gets you back up to hitting about 40% or so. But, most characters in 5e hit more like 65%, and an archery style +2 brings that up to 75%. Take the -5 off that and you're hitting 50% (that's 2/3rds as often as you were, not half as often), Advantage brings that right back up to 75%. It's the same -5 to hit, but a different proportional impact on DPR.

You may like that you are getting an additional +2 for your style.

It is a unique, build-determined, Accuracy bonus in an otherwise tightly Bounded system.

You say that like its a given.

Yep. A character who can attack anyone w/in 30' iff there are no obstacles that prevent movement will find himself unable to attack the optimal target (the one his buddies are all piling onto) more often than the one who can attack anyone w/in 120', without moving. Not worth arguing, really.

Huh?

Not confusing. Ammo is cheap and easy to carry in quantity. But, IMHO, it's very campaign dependent, really. Sure, sling stones may be readily available in any rocky area, but arrows don't grow on trees (outside of elven forests). 5e's lack of hard wealth/level assumptions means your PCs might be desperately poor mercenaries right into higher levels. You can't count on always being able to attack with a ranged weapon (or, indeed, a weapon) the way you can count on being able to attack with a cantrip with no M components or an unarmed attack.

So you are saying spell slots are not trivial. And how they are very important to be used for problem solving. I agree. So how do you manage to cast all the potent ranged damage spells you want in a day?

You don't, you just finagle it to tackle only as many problems as you have slots to cope with before you take a long rest.

Good luck with that, once the DM catches on.

That said, a Warlock's Eldritch Blast is no slouch at ranged DPR, either, and doesn't use slots or ammo. FWIW.

 

[Iry]

The defensive advantages of range, while real when comparing characters to each other, are actually bad strategy in actual play.

This is true! It's important to spread the damage around to maximize the number of characters who can use hit dice healing, and minimize the number of rounds in combat spent casting healing spells.

Though amusingly, a party without melee attackers could accomplish the same thing. It's only when you add melee attackers that the ranged attackers need to scoot up. But when was the last time we saw a party without melee attackers? =P

 

[psychophipps]

Use cover. PCs can only shoot on their turns so make sure "bad guys" can hop from cover to cover. Getting close in most dungeons is easy with good tactics.

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[thecasualoblivion]

Use cover. PCs can only shoot on their turns so make sure "bad guys" can hop from cover to cover. Getting close in most dungeons is easy with good tactics.

Sent from my XT1254 using EN World mobile app

Sharpshooter feat ignores everything but 100% cover. Failing that, you can ready an action to shoot when they leave cover.

 

[Corwin]

Yep. A character who can attack anyone w/in 30' iff there are no obstacles that prevent movement will find himself unable to attack the optimal target (the one his buddies are all piling onto) more often than the one who can attack anyone w/in 120', without moving. Not worth arguing, really.

If this hypothetical disparity is so vexing, when the crossbow specialist was taking his first feat, you should have taken Charger. Thereby effectively doubling how far you can reach an opponent on your turn to 60' and still get an attack. And with +5 damage to boot! Which even stacks with GWM for -5 to hit to deal +15 damage!

 

[Corwin]

Sharpshooter feat ignores everything but 100% cover. Failing that, you can ready an action to shoot when they leave cover.

Yes, 100% cover. Stand on the other side of a tree from that guy plinking at you from a hundred feet away. Or a big rock. Or a wall. You know, cover. Don't let him see you, he can't shoot you. Easy peasy.

Also, go ahead and use a ready action for when the monster pops out. You don't get that coveted bonus action shot with a readied action.

 

[thecasualoblivion]

If this hypothetical disparity is so vexing, when the crossbow specialist was taking his first feat, you should have taken Charger. Thereby effectively doubling how far you can reach an opponent on your turn to 60' and still get an attack. And with +5 damage to boot! Which even stacks with GWM for -5 to hit to deal +15 damage!

Charge is one of the worst feats in 5E. You really aren't speaking from a perspective of anything resembling system mastery, here or anywhere in this thread.

 

[thecasualoblivion]

Yes, 100% cover. Stand on the other side of a tree from that guy plinking at you from a hundred feet away. Or a big rock. Or a wall. You know, cover. Don't let him see you, he can't shoot you. Easy peasy.

Also, go ahead and use a ready action for when the monster pops out. You don't get that coveted bonus action shot with a readied action.

And the enemy isn't attacking at all when hiding. I'll take that trade any day of the week.

 

[Tony Vargas]

If this hypothetical disparity is so vexing, when the crossbow specialist was taking his first feat, you should have taken Charger.

Charger is one of the worst feats in 5E.

Setting aside the relative theoretical values of specific feats, that's still not 120' with no regard to any impediments to movement, so still doesn't make up the difference.

OTOH, there are impediments to ranged attacks that don't affect melee (or not as much) or don't affect movement. (You can walk through a cloud of smoke filling a corridor and melee someone on the other side with no problem, the archer can't even see him.) As with so many other things, the DM can manipulate the reality of the game world to favor one or the other.

 

[Corwin]

Charge[r] is one of the worst feats in 5E. You really aren't speaking from a perspective of anything resembling system mastery, here or anywhere in this thread.

What a foolish statement. I'm not even sure how to even respond to such shenanigans.

And the enemy isn't attacking at all when hiding. I'll take that trade any day of the week.

He's not "hiding". Talk about a lack of system mastery. He's taking 100% cover from *you*. So sure he can be attacking. He could be attacking your melee buddy that came up to engage him while he's behind the boulder. Or maybe he's popping out momentarily to shooting back at you, thus again denying you your precious bonus action shot you think makes you the bee's knees. Or perhaps he's taking care of whatever nefarious business you came here to stop him from doing. Whatever. Please stop being so hyper simplistic. You don't DM do you? You are a exclusively a player I take it?