Hold (Target), Mass

[Percivellian]

For reference, I'll quote Hold Person, the the Mass form thereof

Hold Person
Enchantment (Compulsion) [Mind-Affecting]
Level: Brd 2, Clr 2, Sor/Wiz 3
Components: V, S, F/DF
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Medium (100 ft. + 10 ft./level)
Target: One humanoid creature
Duration: 1 round/level (D); see text
Saving Throw: Will negates; see text
Spell Resistance: Yes
The subject becomes paralyzed and freezes in place. It is aware and breathes normally but cannot take any actions, even speech. Each round on its turn, the subject may attempt a new saving throw to end the effect. (This is a full-round action that does not provoke attacks of opportunity.)
A winged creature who is paralyzed cannot flap its wings and falls. A swimmer can’t swim and may drown.
Arcane Focus: A small, straight piece of iron.

Hold Person, Mass
Enchantment (Compulsion) [Mind-Affecting]
Level: Sor/Wiz 7
Targets: One or more humanoid creatures, no two of which can be more than 30 ft. apart
This spell functions like hold person, except as noted above.

My query has to do with "One or more". How many more?

 

[Crothian]

seems like an unlimited amount as long as they are all within 30 feet of each other.

 

[Lord Pendragon]

seems like an unlimited amount as long as they are all within 30 feet of each other.

This is my reading as well.

 

[Percivellian]

EDIT: Read that wrong. I follow now. Thank you for the clarification.

 

[the Jester]

Remember, though, that all of them must be within 30' of all other targets. Distinctly different from, say, 'all creatures in a 30' burst' or something.

 

[Hypersmurf]

Well, holy cow. Can you say "Army stopped in its tracks"? (Well, the portion that fail their saves anyway).

Be that the case, my knee-jerk reflex is that's too powerful. Even one spell casters with a handful of Hold Person, Mass scrolls could devastate armies organized in rank and file... on a failed save, the subject is helpless, and can be given a coup de grace.

Yikes.

Against the average army? You're talking 1st level Warriors, probably.

The 7th level Mass Hold Person will hit about thirty of them, in a 15 foot radius, near enough. They get a Will save each round to negate it.

The 6th level Circle of Death, on the other hand, will get on an average roll at caster level 11 about the same number... but they can be in up to a forty foot radius. They get one save, and if they fail, they're dead.

Or a Widened Fireball, also 6th level, will hit every creature in a forty-foot radius. That's about two hundred of them, taking 35 damage, Reflex half. How many War-1s can take 17 damage even if they save?

For Army-stoppers, you've got a whole lot of better options than Mass Hold Person. Who wants to get close enough to try making CDGs on fifteen feet worth of an entire army? The rest of them aren't just going to be standing there doing nothing...

-Hyp.

 

[Percivellian]

I edited because I realized that for some reason (most likely a lack of sleep) I had read the spell description to mean that you could affect any number of targets as long as they were no more than 30 feet away from any one of your other targets. I now realize that's ridiculous, and the text, when read carefully, does not in any way imply that. Hopefully that explains why I figured (mistakenly) that the spell was an army stopper.

The 'every single one of them has to be within at least 30ft. of every other' was lost in my haziness, but you have set all that straight. My gratitude

 

[Cross]

Why isn't this an area spell?

ON a side note, simply because it's not the first time I personally have made the mistake, I wonder why Wizard's didn't simply say all creatures within a 15 foot radius? It's simpler to understand, easier to draw, and it leads to fewer issues and questions.

Thoughts?

 

[The Souljourner]

It's not an area 'cause you can choose to not affect some people in the area. But yeah, they really should just say "affects any number of targets of your choice in a 15' radius".

-The Souljourner